3 ms·

That's a great way to make sure no company ever releases anything open source.

by cudder 3y ago

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
Not just FOSS: Depending on the phrasing, that sounds like a great way to kill gratis software as well.
- chromoblob 3y ago
  No, only unsafe gratis software would be killed.
  - hypothesis 3y ago
    Please define “unsafe”. Also, you can use most things in a harmful way…
    - chromoblob 3y ago
      Cool, but that should be directed to tomjen3. As for myself, maybe: "that which causes loss or injury to the user when handling of it does not intend this"?
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    ...right, so that's virtually all of it. Practically speaking, all software has bugs, and any piece of software can if nothing else be used in a chained attack to cause harm.
    - chromoblob 3y ago
      > Practically speaking, all software has bugs This may change in future, e.g. by enough people turning to formal verification. > any piece of software can if nothing else be used in a chained attack to cause harm Does it mean that it is unsafe? In that case notion of safety seems to be destroyed.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
        > This may change in future, e.g. by enough people turning to formal verification. It's been over 50 years; I don't think we're on the cusp of creating perfect software. Even formal verification and related methods - while a huge improvement! - aren't a silver bullet (AIUI, mostly in the "is your model right" and "does your theoretical analysis map to reality" points). > Does it mean that it is unsafe? In that case notion of safety seems to be destroyed. Yes, that's my point. If your software has exploitable bugs, it can be used in a chain of exploits to achieve attacks that don't appear plausible from individual components, and this means that most systems have a lot more attack surface than anyone wants to think about.
        chromoblob 3y ago
        I mean if it doesn't have bugs. Like if someone uses a calculator, a map, other utilities in order to plan a mass shooting. If bugs may be there, notion of safety is fine.

That's a great way to make sure no company ever releases anything open source.

by cudder 3y ago

That's a great way to make sure no company ever releases anything open source.

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago

Not just FOSS: Depending on the phrasing, that sounds like a great way to kill gratis software as well.

chromoblob 3y ago
No, only unsafe gratis software would be killed.
- hypothesis 3y ago
  Please define “unsafe”. Also, you can use most things in a harmful way…
  - chromoblob 3y ago
    Cool, but that should be directed to tomjen3. As for myself, maybe: "that which causes loss or injury to the user when handling of it does not intend this"?
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  ...right, so that's virtually all of it. Practically speaking, all software has bugs, and any piece of software can if nothing else be used in a chained attack to cause harm.
  - chromoblob 3y ago
    > Practically speaking, all software has bugs This may change in future, e.g. by enough people turning to formal verification. > any piece of software can if nothing else be used in a chained attack to cause harm Does it mean that it is unsafe? In that case notion of safety seems to be destroyed.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
      > This may change in future, e.g. by enough people turning to formal verification. It's been over 50 years; I don't think we're on the cusp of creating perfect software. Even formal verification and related methods - while a huge improvement! - aren't a silver bullet (AIUI, mostly in the "is your model right" and "does your theoretical analysis map to reality" points). > Does it mean that it is unsafe? In that case notion of safety seems to be destroyed. Yes, that's my point. If your software has exploitable bugs, it can be used in a chain of exploits to achieve attacks that don't appear plausible from individual components, and this means that most systems have a lot more attack surface than anyone wants to think about.
      - chromoblob 3y ago
        I mean if it doesn't have bugs. Like if someone uses a calculator, a map, other utilities in order to plan a mass shooting. If bugs may be there, notion of safety is fine.