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What's wrong with advertising in general exactly? Is it such an immoral act to want to share the news that you are selling a new cool product? Are "Show HN:" th

What's wrong with advertising in general exactly? Is it such an immoral act to want to share the news that you are selling a new cool product? Are "Show HN:" threads immoral too? The way I see it it's a consenting relationship between sellers and consumers; good for companies/artisans, good for consumers, good for the economy, good for the spread of new technology, good for the environment (second hand marketplaces).

RugnirViking 3y ago
> it's a consenting relationship between sellers and consumers This is so outlandish that I feel you almost must be trolling. It's explicitly not consentual. I don't want to see ads. Any ads. Any ads at all. Never. I would be perfectly happy never seeing a single ad in my life and I am 100% confident that I would never regret that choice. I go to great lengths to make myself as annoying as possible to advertisers, making gdpr requests, using browsers that refuse all cookies even when it means I have to constantly sign in and/or automate consent forms, asking for breakdowns of all data stored on me etc. Despite all this, I still see at least two or three dozen ads every day.
- omgmajk 3y ago
  I agree with most of what you say but I don't know how you manage to see that amount of ads. I use a couple of browser plugins and generally I don't see more than maybe five ads a day, not counting sponsor spots in youtube videos (which I could remove with even more plugins but meh).
  - RugnirViking 3y ago
    It's highly variable. Some days id see none online, some days id see three dozen. Depends if I have to use certain websites like facebook, linkedin, etc. However it's fairly consistent that on my short walk to work ill see two or three ads plastered on busses (well usually several per bus but we'll be kind and count them as one), and maybe a dozen adverts on the side of buildings, billboards, adverts and bus stops, random advert screens on the pavement, and more. I'll also often see posters for upcoming concerts and stickers for local shops and venues attached to lampposts, electrical boxes, walls, the floor, any surface. Often they are layered on top of older ones several deep. The posters are fine, honestly even a little charming by their lack of permanence and by comparison to the offensive eyesore digital screens exhorting me to buy junk food I have already heard of pretty much every day for my entire life. But I wouldn't miss them. I can find lists of all upcoming concerts in my area with no effort at all.
    - omgmajk 3y ago
      I mainly thought you were talking about online ads only but even if I account for things outside I don't really see that much. It's mostly on bus stops and most days I just drive to work and then back home which renders me seeing zero ads on the way. They're not that common where I live.
  - NiloCK 3y ago
    Billboards? Street posters? I'm in an airport right now and can easily count a dozen ads in my field of view, even counting the two large ad carousel displays as one apiece. I'm sure I encountered hundreds on my way to this gate.
    - omgmajk 3y ago
      I mean, at bus stops there are some ads but I mainly just drive to work and back home and I'm out in my area just hanging with friends or chilling in nature but really street ads are not that common here. I did however mostly speak about ads on the internet, because that's what I thought the OP was talking about.
  - _Algernon_ 3y ago
    Are you ever outside? I see that number of ads on a single trip with my city's mass transit. I'd see that number of ads in a single 100m walk downtown.
    - omgmajk 3y ago
      Street ads are not that common here and I'm never really in the central area of my city. However I mainly spoke about online ads because that's what I thought OP was talking about.
- throwaway94373 3y ago
  The ads you are describing are the the most intrusive forms of modern advertisements, which imo deserve to be banned, while the parent post mentions benning advertising in general, be it a commercial or an insertion on a newspaper for an used civic. The idea that ogling even the most innocuous forms of advertising reduces your quality of life to the point the government has to step in and prevent everyone else from benefiting from them sounds excessive.
  - RugnirViking 3y ago
    > to the point the government we've gone from "a consentual and loving relationship which is useful for society" to "well some parts of it aren't THAT painful, so why complain?" real fast... > prevent everyone else to benefiting nobody benefits. Not even companies. It's a zero sum game. Spend more than your competitor to get an edge.
bondarchuk 3y ago
>The way I see it it's a consenting relationship between sellers and consumers I've not yet found out how to withdraw my consent for seeing ads when I'm walking in the street. PS to answer your question: >What's wrong with advertising in general exactly? Have a look at the psychological techniques that are used in ads. Many many ads are based on inciting fear, so even if they "don't work" on you in the sense of getting you to buy a product, they might still work on you in the sense of inciting fear. They even managed to sell candy bars based on fear: if you're hungry you might get grumpy and will be socially ostracized. Air fresheners are sold with the message that people will dislike you if your house stinks. Ads for gambling usually target sad and lonely people in a pretty obvious way ("if you win the lottery you'll have friends"). There are other techniques too. Teenage body image issues resulting from ads have been well documented. Etc.. etc.. etc. There's armies of well-paid psychologists working on getting under your skin every which way, using focus groups, sociological research, brain scans...
marssaxman 3y ago
> Is it such an immoral act to want to share the news that you are selling a new cool product? The goal of advertising is to induce a feeling of dissatisfaction which can be relieved by giving money to the advertiser. Making a profit by encouraging people to experience the suffering of unfulfilled desire does not strike me as an especially virtuous practice. > it's a consenting relationship Not hardly, not most of the time! Perhaps one could argue that I have consented to advertising if I have picked up a trade magazine, but public advertising is intrusive and always unwanted, as far as I'm concerned. I block it when I can, ignore it when I must, avoid it always, and I applaud those who vandalize billboards.
_Algernon_ 3y ago
You are about 100 years behind the curve if you still think that advertising is about "sharing the news that you're selling a new product". Modern advertising is about manipulating emotions on a global scale.

RugnirViking 3y ago

> it's a consenting relationship between sellers and consumers This is so outlandish that I feel you almost must be trolling. It's explicitly not consentual. I don't want to see ads. Any ads. Any ads at all. Never. I would be perfectly happy never seeing a single ad in my life and I am 100% confident that I would never regret that choice. I go to great lengths to make myself as annoying as possible to advertisers, making gdpr requests, using browsers that refuse all cookies even when it means I have to constantly sign in and/or automate consent forms, asking for breakdowns of all data stored on me etc. Despite all this, I still see at least two or three dozen ads every day.

omgmajk 3y ago
I agree with most of what you say but I don't know how you manage to see that amount of ads. I use a couple of browser plugins and generally I don't see more than maybe five ads a day, not counting sponsor spots in youtube videos (which I could remove with even more plugins but meh).
- RugnirViking 3y ago
  It's highly variable. Some days id see none online, some days id see three dozen. Depends if I have to use certain websites like facebook, linkedin, etc. However it's fairly consistent that on my short walk to work ill see two or three ads plastered on busses (well usually several per bus but we'll be kind and count them as one), and maybe a dozen adverts on the side of buildings, billboards, adverts and bus stops, random advert screens on the pavement, and more. I'll also often see posters for upcoming concerts and stickers for local shops and venues attached to lampposts, electrical boxes, walls, the floor, any surface. Often they are layered on top of older ones several deep. The posters are fine, honestly even a little charming by their lack of permanence and by comparison to the offensive eyesore digital screens exhorting me to buy junk food I have already heard of pretty much every day for my entire life. But I wouldn't miss them. I can find lists of all upcoming concerts in my area with no effort at all.
  - omgmajk 3y ago
    I mainly thought you were talking about online ads only but even if I account for things outside I don't really see that much. It's mostly on bus stops and most days I just drive to work and then back home which renders me seeing zero ads on the way. They're not that common where I live.
- NiloCK 3y ago
  Billboards? Street posters? I'm in an airport right now and can easily count a dozen ads in my field of view, even counting the two large ad carousel displays as one apiece. I'm sure I encountered hundreds on my way to this gate.
  - omgmajk 3y ago
    I mean, at bus stops there are some ads but I mainly just drive to work and back home and I'm out in my area just hanging with friends or chilling in nature but really street ads are not that common here. I did however mostly speak about ads on the internet, because that's what I thought the OP was talking about.
- _Algernon_ 3y ago
  Are you ever outside? I see that number of ads on a single trip with my city's mass transit. I'd see that number of ads in a single 100m walk downtown.
  - omgmajk 3y ago
    Street ads are not that common here and I'm never really in the central area of my city. However I mainly spoke about online ads because that's what I thought OP was talking about.
throwaway94373 3y ago
The ads you are describing are the the most intrusive forms of modern advertisements, which imo deserve to be banned, while the parent post mentions benning advertising in general, be it a commercial or an insertion on a newspaper for an used civic. The idea that ogling even the most innocuous forms of advertising reduces your quality of life to the point the government has to step in and prevent everyone else from benefiting from them sounds excessive.
- RugnirViking 3y ago
  > to the point the government we've gone from "a consentual and loving relationship which is useful for society" to "well some parts of it aren't THAT painful, so why complain?" real fast... > prevent everyone else to benefiting nobody benefits. Not even companies. It's a zero sum game. Spend more than your competitor to get an edge.

bondarchuk 3y ago

>The way I see it it's a consenting relationship between sellers and consumers I've not yet found out how to withdraw my consent for seeing ads when I'm walking in the street. PS to answer your question: >What's wrong with advertising in general exactly? Have a look at the psychological techniques that are used in ads. Many many ads are based on inciting fear, so even if they "don't work" on you in the sense of getting you to buy a product, they might still work on you in the sense of inciting fear. They even managed to sell candy bars based on fear: if you're hungry you might get grumpy and will be socially ostracized. Air fresheners are sold with the message that people will dislike you if your house stinks. Ads for gambling usually target sad and lonely people in a pretty obvious way ("if you win the lottery you'll have friends"). There are other techniques too. Teenage body image issues resulting from ads have been well documented. Etc.. etc.. etc. There's armies of well-paid psychologists working on getting under your skin every which way, using focus groups, sociological research, brain scans...

marssaxman 3y ago

> Is it such an immoral act to want to share the news that you are selling a new cool product? The goal of advertising is to induce a feeling of dissatisfaction which can be relieved by giving money to the advertiser. Making a profit by encouraging people to experience the suffering of unfulfilled desire does not strike me as an especially virtuous practice. > it's a consenting relationship Not hardly, not most of the time! Perhaps one could argue that I have consented to advertising if I have picked up a trade magazine, but public advertising is intrusive and always unwanted, as far as I'm concerned. I block it when I can, ignore it when I must, avoid it always, and I applaud those who vandalize billboards.

_Algernon_ 3y ago

You are about 100 years behind the curve if you still think that advertising is about "sharing the news that you're selling a new product". Modern advertising is about manipulating emotions on a global scale.