4 ms·

The 2018 shutdown did not appear to affect GPS. Is this looming shut down different in some way?

by dfxm12 3y ago

khuey 3y ago
No, it's not.
abeppu 3y ago
I don't actually expect GPS to be impacted in the coming week, but I think the big difference is that in the last partial shutdown, DoD funding had already been separately approved in September [2,3], and the shutdown started months later [1]. This cycle, b/c the NDAA has _not_ been passed, the DoD will be meaningfully impacted [4]: - service members will not be paid - some post and base services, commissaries and medical procedures may be stopped Note that legislation has been proposed but not adopted to make sure that military personnel are paid even during a government shutdown. Note also that key military promotions/confirmations have been blocked for months in the Senate. It really seems like Congress does is not currently taking the military and national security seriously. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019_United_States_federal_government_shutdown#Agencies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019_United_State... [2] https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/5895 https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/5895 [3] https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/6157 https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/6157 [4] https://www.npr.org/2023/09/27/1201956915/government-shutdown-us-military-national-security https://www.npr.org/2023/09/27/1201956915/government-shutdow...
- Jtsummers 3y ago
  > Note also that key military promotions/confirmations have been blocked for months in the Senate. One man in the Senate is responsible for this one. Non-essential civil service (a substantial part of DOD operations) will not be working come Monday (unless an agreement is reached by then) unless they are on multi-year funds. Program offices and large portions of logistics are largely staffed by civil service at this point so this could have huge impacts on military readiness.
  - abeppu 3y ago
    > One man in the Senate is responsible for this one. One man bears special responsibility, but as the recent confirmation of 3 top appointments shows, there are mechanisms that could be brought to bear. My (limited) understanding is that Senate holds can be ended with a cloture vote, so any 60 Senators could agree to move the nominations to consideration.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
rootusrootus 3y ago
There's a recent article I read (NPR, I think?) where Mick Mulvaney was interviewed about that shutdown. He made the point (and spun it to make him look especially noble, of course) that the effects of a shutdown are largely decided by the Office of Management and Budget. They can choose to soften the blow, or they can make it hurt. He argued that in 2013 under Obama, the OMB really turned the screws and hired contractors to fence off even national monuments which were otherwise unmanned anyway. Complete with signs announcing why they were fenced off. They wanted the public to feel the pain and associate it with Republicans (which seems to work, historically the GOP gets the majority of blame for shutdowns). I think it's unlikely anybody is going to turn off GPS because the gov't "shutdown". I think the larger risk is that they will stop paying air traffic controllers, while expecting them to come to work anyway. That'll work for a while, but eventually some of those controllers may opt to stay home.
- dfxm12 3y ago
  Republicans don't get blamed for the government shutdowns because of signs or fences by national monuments. They get blamed because they are at fault, whether that's trying to cut the increasingly popular ACA purely out of spite to Obama in 2013, or party infighting like this year or 2018.
  - mindslight 3y ago
    The "blame" is exactly what Republican Party wants, to keep up their kayfabe marketing of "fiscal responsibility". Put interest rates around 7% for the next several decades, end the inflationary treadmill, let the everything bubble deflate, let the Wall Street debt/financialization cancer recede - and then it would make sense to talk about fiscal responsibility as a real thing. Until then any peanuts thrown to the plebs by the Democrats are really just mitigating the economic damage from the trough of overwhelming corporate welfare.
    - jhoechtl 3y ago
      There are a couple of german words which made it into mainstream english like angst, zeitgeist, abseil. Based on your comment I would suggest a new one: brandrede. Look it up, afaik there is no english equivalent.

The 2018 shutdown did not appear to affect GPS. Is this looming shut down different in some way?

by dfxm12 3y ago

The 2018 shutdown did not appear to affect GPS. Is this looming shut down different in some way?

khuey 3y ago

No, it's not.

abeppu 3y ago

I don't actually expect GPS to be impacted in the coming week, but I think the big difference is that in the last partial shutdown, DoD funding had already been separately approved in September [2,3], and the shutdown started months later [1]. This cycle, b/c the NDAA has _not_ been passed, the DoD will be meaningfully impacted [4]: - service members will not be paid - some post and base services, commissaries and medical procedures may be stopped Note that legislation has been proposed but not adopted to make sure that military personnel are paid even during a government shutdown. Note also that key military promotions/confirmations have been blocked for months in the Senate. It really seems like Congress does is not currently taking the military and national security seriously. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019_United_States_federal_government_shutdown#Agencies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019_United_State... [2] https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/5895 https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/5895 [3] https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/6157 https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/6157 [4] https://www.npr.org/2023/09/27/1201956915/government-shutdown-us-military-national-security https://www.npr.org/2023/09/27/1201956915/government-shutdow...

Jtsummers 3y ago
> Note also that key military promotions/confirmations have been blocked for months in the Senate. One man in the Senate is responsible for this one. Non-essential civil service (a substantial part of DOD operations) will not be working come Monday (unless an agreement is reached by then) unless they are on multi-year funds. Program offices and large portions of logistics are largely staffed by civil service at this point so this could have huge impacts on military readiness.
- abeppu 3y ago
  > One man in the Senate is responsible for this one. One man bears special responsibility, but as the recent confirmation of 3 top appointments shows, there are mechanisms that could be brought to bear. My (limited) understanding is that Senate holds can be ended with a cloture vote, so any 60 Senators could agree to move the nominations to consideration.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

rootusrootus 3y ago

There's a recent article I read (NPR, I think?) where Mick Mulvaney was interviewed about that shutdown. He made the point (and spun it to make him look especially noble, of course) that the effects of a shutdown are largely decided by the Office of Management and Budget. They can choose to soften the blow, or they can make it hurt. He argued that in 2013 under Obama, the OMB really turned the screws and hired contractors to fence off even national monuments which were otherwise unmanned anyway. Complete with signs announcing why they were fenced off. They wanted the public to feel the pain and associate it with Republicans (which seems to work, historically the GOP gets the majority of blame for shutdowns). I think it's unlikely anybody is going to turn off GPS because the gov't "shutdown". I think the larger risk is that they will stop paying air traffic controllers, while expecting them to come to work anyway. That'll work for a while, but eventually some of those controllers may opt to stay home.

dfxm12 3y ago
Republicans don't get blamed for the government shutdowns because of signs or fences by national monuments. They get blamed because they are at fault, whether that's trying to cut the increasingly popular ACA purely out of spite to Obama in 2013, or party infighting like this year or 2018.
- mindslight 3y ago
  The "blame" is exactly what Republican Party wants, to keep up their kayfabe marketing of "fiscal responsibility". Put interest rates around 7% for the next several decades, end the inflationary treadmill, let the everything bubble deflate, let the Wall Street debt/financialization cancer recede - and then it would make sense to talk about fiscal responsibility as a real thing. Until then any peanuts thrown to the plebs by the Democrats are really just mitigating the economic damage from the trough of overwhelming corporate welfare.
  - jhoechtl 3y ago
    There are a couple of german words which made it into mainstream english like angst, zeitgeist, abseil. Based on your comment I would suggest a new one: brandrede. Look it up, afaik there is no english equivalent.