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> Are you saying Linux is intrinsically better? Can we say that the market has spoken? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems https://

> Are you saying Linux is intrinsically better? Can we say that the market has spoken? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_syste... I look forward to the day that windows is mostly a UI over WSL and things like the regsitry become a distant memory.

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
> Can we say that the market has spoken? Microsoft aggressively abused its monopoly position in order to make sure that Linux would never win in the desktop market, and then inertia took over, so no we can't say that the market has said anything useful
rakoo 3y ago
The market is an illusion. Until recently I had no means to buy Linux, I was forced to buy Windows (and it is illegal here, but all you get for going to a trial is not even the price of a licence). Even today the options are very few. The idea of a market works if it costs ~0 to enter a market, consumers have an infinite access to knowledge and infinite time to make a decision BUT make it in 1s when at the store, and also enough money so as to not be a problem. Basically, consumers have all the power and vendors have none. Nothing is really a market, and operating systems definitely shows it.
- achrono 3y ago
  >Until recently I had no means to buy Linux, I was forced to buy Windows Huh, why not?
  - rakoo 3y ago
    Because no computer was sold with Linux in it. There wasn't even an offer, let alone a market.
    - r053bud 3y ago
      You can just install it after the fact. Do you lack internet?
      - rakoo 3y ago
        Are you serioulsy implying that everyone had hundreds of MB to spare, the knowledge, the material and the time to do it ? I'm talking about the beginning of the century when the only connection was through 56k. I'm talking about being an underage kid who discovers computing, through whatever exists in the store, and you think downloading an iso is straightforward ?
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        You said 'until recently' but you're describing a situation from the 90s.
        rakoo 3y ago
        It's still true today, machines with Linux can barely be found in stores. You can find them online but that's not always easier for people who are not knowledgeable
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        It's not true today at all lol. You talked about not having access to Linux and only having dial up speed - that's strictly a 90s problem. You don't see them in stores because there is not enough demand for them, and because stores are dying anyway. Very easy to find them online to buy.
        rakoo 3y ago
        > only having dial up speed - that's strictly a 90s problem. Dial up was widespread well into the early 2000's, and even then ADSL started to spread slowly. > You don't see them in stores because there is not enough demand for them There is no demand because, again, the market is a lie. One OS is forced to consumers, on the computers they buy in the stores, they use at school, they use at work. That's exactly what I'm saying. > Very easy to find them online to buy. Computer literacy of the population is not comparable to the one of people on HN, so no, I wouldn't say it is as easy as buying a linux computer online than buying any computer offline.
- plagiarist 3y ago
  > The idea of a market works if it costs ~0 to enter a market, consumers have an infinite access to knowledge and infinite time to make a decision BUT make it in 1s when at the store, and also enough money so as to not be a problem. Basically, consumers have all the power and vendors have none. I keep trying to communicate this whenever people are attempting to manifest an Invisible Hand to control bad behavior. More people need to be aware of this. I like your succinct point. I wish there was something so short and understandable for an even fuller picture. Like including that for a marked to price things in a way that works for societies, consumers need to choose long term over short term gains and that the price needs to not make economic externalities of human rights or destroying the climate.

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago

> Can we say that the market has spoken? Microsoft aggressively abused its monopoly position in order to make sure that Linux would never win in the desktop market, and then inertia took over, so no we can't say that the market has said anything useful

rakoo 3y ago

The market is an illusion. Until recently I had no means to buy Linux, I was forced to buy Windows (and it is illegal here, but all you get for going to a trial is not even the price of a licence). Even today the options are very few. The idea of a market works if it costs ~0 to enter a market, consumers have an infinite access to knowledge and infinite time to make a decision BUT make it in 1s when at the store, and also enough money so as to not be a problem. Basically, consumers have all the power and vendors have none. Nothing is really a market, and operating systems definitely shows it.

achrono 3y ago
>Until recently I had no means to buy Linux, I was forced to buy Windows Huh, why not?
- rakoo 3y ago
  Because no computer was sold with Linux in it. There wasn't even an offer, let alone a market.
  - r053bud 3y ago
    You can just install it after the fact. Do you lack internet?
    - rakoo 3y ago
      Are you serioulsy implying that everyone had hundreds of MB to spare, the knowledge, the material and the time to do it ? I'm talking about the beginning of the century when the only connection was through 56k. I'm talking about being an underage kid who discovers computing, through whatever exists in the store, and you think downloading an iso is straightforward ?
      - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        You said 'until recently' but you're describing a situation from the 90s.
        rakoo 3y ago
        It's still true today, machines with Linux can barely be found in stores. You can find them online but that's not always easier for people who are not knowledgeable
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        It's not true today at all lol. You talked about not having access to Linux and only having dial up speed - that's strictly a 90s problem. You don't see them in stores because there is not enough demand for them, and because stores are dying anyway. Very easy to find them online to buy.
        rakoo 3y ago
        > only having dial up speed - that's strictly a 90s problem. Dial up was widespread well into the early 2000's, and even then ADSL started to spread slowly. > You don't see them in stores because there is not enough demand for them There is no demand because, again, the market is a lie. One OS is forced to consumers, on the computers they buy in the stores, they use at school, they use at work. That's exactly what I'm saying. > Very easy to find them online to buy. Computer literacy of the population is not comparable to the one of people on HN, so no, I wouldn't say it is as easy as buying a linux computer online than buying any computer offline.
plagiarist 3y ago
> The idea of a market works if it costs ~0 to enter a market, consumers have an infinite access to knowledge and infinite time to make a decision BUT make it in 1s when at the store, and also enough money so as to not be a problem. Basically, consumers have all the power and vendors have none. I keep trying to communicate this whenever people are attempting to manifest an Invisible Hand to control bad behavior. More people need to be aware of this. I like your succinct point. I wish there was something so short and understandable for an even fuller picture. Like including that for a marked to price things in a way that works for societies, consumers need to choose long term over short term gains and that the price needs to not make economic externalities of human rights or destroying the climate.