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One could say you're doing the exact same thing to Redditors that you say they do. Being negative for the sake of being negative. Just love to hate when there i

by 22289d 3y ago

One could say you're doing the exact same thing to Redditors that you say they do. Being negative for the sake of being negative. Just love to hate when there is no human face - or even someone to reply. But oops, here one is ;) Redditors are entitled and they are demanding and they are quick to jump all over you. And they can be wrong. But it's not for the sake of negativity and it's not because there is no human there. That culture is damned effective at filtering out bullshit and bad actors and getting to the facts. If you want to bring Redditors some overpriced vaporware you are absolutely right they're going to rip you apart. They're just doing what Redditors do - calling out bullshit. Bring them a product worthy of praising and they'll make entire subreddits dedicated to your awesome product.

kortilla 3y ago
> That culture is damned effective at filtering out bullshit and bad actors and getting to the facts. Lol, that’s not at all what the culture is good at. It’s an internet mob with famous examples of false accusations, doxxing and harassment. Any subreddit that isn’t severely moderated is gamed by people who know how to appeal to the local crowd. Being cynical and anti-business is not about “getting to the facts”. It just means they need a different type of marketing.
- 22289d 3y ago
  I can see that Reddit really hurt you. On behalf of the community, I'm sorry. > It just means they need a different type of marketing. That's correct. And Step #1 is to have a product which will make it past the collective bullshit detector. Step #2 is to provide real and actual value. To have a legitimately good product. So much of marketing is built on deception. If you try to deceive Redditors, you're going to get told to fk urself. People who can't complete step 1 or 2 and want to employ deception-based marketing often tell a tail like yours. It's our fault for not just taking what you tell us at face value and handing over our money. However all of the people appending 'Reddit' to their search queries instead of reading the deception-based marketing pages that fill up Google results, may understand where I'm coming from.
  - throwaway743 3y ago
    > I can see that Reddit really hurt you. On behalf of the community, I'm sorry. Dude doesn't seem hurt, they're just spitting facts.
    - 22289d 3y ago
      That was an extremely biased and jaded characterization that focuses only on a narrow set of negatives. Have those things happened on Reddit? Ya. Was that in any way an accurate summary of what Reddit is? No. And it's absurd to claim that it is. "But look at this example and this one" I could make a huge list of the times Reddit has been bad, too. That doesn't change a single thing about what I just said.
      - wholinator2 3y ago
        I think the problem is that we're talking about "reddit" like it's one group of people who have the same characteristic responses to things across time. But the whole point of reddit is for there to be disparate communities who may or may not communicate with each other and may or may not share or hold diametrically opposing views on any topic that can be written in words. When submitting to reddit, you elplicitely cannot submit just to "reddit", you have to choose a subreddit. These subreddit can be as varied in response as humans can, even when apparently sharing the same topic/goal. Subreddits turn toxic sometimes, sometimes they're made that way intentionally. Some are hard fought places of positive intent with strong moderation and some are 'wild west'. Sometimes places get toxic enough that someone else creates a similarly named subreddit with an identical goal but attempts to cultivate and moderate a positive environment. If you didn't know about this you'd see 2 identical subreddits, when you post you'll get 2 very different receptions. "Reddit"s response is entirely dependent upon subreddit. We cannot argue about how "reddit" reacts, and it's impractical to talk about individual redditors, the communities within, the subreddits, are the unit about which we can have meaningful conversation. There's no point in arguing about whether reddit has hurt someone or not or whether their reception was beneficial or degrading the community without knowing _which_ Community. There are places that will hurt everyone, there are places that will reject every product, there are places that won't. They are different places
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  > Lol, that’s not at all what the culture is good at. It’s an internet mob with famous examples of false accusations, doxxing and harassment. You're both wrong :). There is no "Reddit culture"; on Reddit, culture is scoped to a subreddit. You and GP are likely hanging out on different kinds of subreddits - but if your experience is that of "an internet mob with famous examples of false accusations, doxxing and harassment", I strongly suggest you rethink which subreddits you follow. Yes, they probably need a different type of marketing, but they're probably also not worth it for technical products. > Being cynical and anti-business is not about “getting to the facts”. It's hard to tell, because cynicism and healthy realism overlap nearly 100% when it comes to modern business.
  - 22289d 3y ago
    > There is no "Reddit culture"; on Reddit, culture is scoped to a subreddit. There is both. For example, anonymity. There is nothing stopping people from using their real name as their username or openly revealing who they are, where they live and work etc. But the Reddit culture is to be anonymous. Are there exceptions? Yes. But those exceptions don't change that it's an anonymous culture.
  - kortilla 3y ago
    Oh I’m aware different subreddits have different cultures, but doxxing and mob behavior emerge from any large enough online anonymous crowd. Humans at scale are petty and vindictive. HN even has to have rules about it because it’s been a problem here even when the site was much smaller. Any particular subreddit will have a specific ideological soft spot that a dedicated marketer will be able to identify and craft turf to exploit. It’s a fundamental flaw to anonymity.
duxup 3y ago
> That culture is damned effective at filtering out bullshit and bad actors and getting to the facts. That’s not my experience at all. I’m curious what makes you think that?
- 22289d 3y ago
  > I’m curious what makes you think that? 15+ years of living on Reddit. Is it perfect at those things? Of course not. Can you and I and others provide a bunch of examples of those things not happening? Of course. It's still damned good at them. I expanded at length here on how this works with regard to people trying to promote their products: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37703112 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37703112 But it applies to all sorts of stuff, depending on the subreddit. Investing advice, sports trivia, historical facts, whatever.
  - duxup 3y ago
    That link didn’t really explain anything. Are you talking about specific subreddits or topics? I’ve found the negativity on Reddit to be more likely as to come from completely ignorant sources as anyone with actual knowledge. I'm pretty surprised anyone on there for a long period of time would be so trusting of the community there.
    - 22289d 3y ago
      > Are you talking about specific subreddits or topics? I'm talking about the culture of the entire site. From tiny subreddits to huge ones and every topic. > I’ve found the negativity on Reddit to be more likely as to come from completely ignorant sources as anyone with actual knowledge. Maybe we're talking about different things here. You seem to be referring to jerks. I was referring to people calling stuff out. People can call things out politely. One could say you're doing it right now - you disagree with me and you're explaining why. You're not being negative but what you're doing would be an example of what I mean. Redditors do this. If they see something they think is wrong, they say so. Sometimes in great numbers. Sometimes politely, sometimes very rude. Sometimes with the IQ of a hamster and sometimes it's a genius. But they let you know. > I'm pretty surprised anyone on there for a long period of time would be so trusting of the community there. I don't know what you mean by trusting. They're not always right. I don't automatically believe whatever they say. It's like in Jackie Brown. 'You can't trust melanie, but you can always trust melanie to be melanie.' I trust Reddit to be Reddit. If they see something they don't agree with or think is false or think is misleading or think is not the best way - they're gonna let you know.
newZWhoDis 3y ago
>That culture is damned effective at filtering out bullshit and bad actors and getting to the facts. Meanwhile the “inverse Reddit” investing strategy works even better than “inverse Cramer” Reddit comments are the whiskey to YouTube comment’s beer on the stupidity index.
- 22289d 3y ago
  I guess it depends at what point you buy. A lot of people on Reddit got generational fuck you money betting on GME, Bitcoin and a lot of other stuff. But if you're getting your Reddit tips from CNN then ya you're probably too late.
  - romafirst3 3y ago
    Have you seen the receipts or are you just parroting what they are saying on social media?
    - duxup 3y ago
      I'm suspecting this other user has some naive / ideological-ish belief in the reddit community or something.
      - 22289d 3y ago
        Probably what's happening is I'm doing a poor job of communicating what I mean. To me if I say 'they aren't always right' that's enough and I have clearly articulated that Reddit can be and is on a regular basis, completely idiotic, absurdly wrong and all flavor of other bad things. But evidently not as people keep saying things like you just did.
    - 22289d 3y ago
      lol parroting what they say on social media. Very interesting way you put that and sorta gets to the heart of the matter. To me it doesn't even make sense, like, why would I get my information on social media. I'm telling you what I've seen on Reddit. But you went to what people say other places. Which is clearly how a lot of you are getting your information. And ya, I've seen the receipts. I've got some receipts of my own.
romphl 3y ago
One example that came to mind was Apollo app where their users came to bat for them during that whole third-party apps fiasco.
llbeansandrice 3y ago
> That culture is damned effective at filtering out bullshit and bad actors and getting to the facts. No idea how anyone can say this earnestly about Reddit while having spent as much time there as you claim you have. It's a horrible corner of the internet rife with all kinds of bigotry and hatred and negativity for the sake of it. Not to mention it's the easiest place to astroturf ever. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Sunil_Tripathi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Sunil_Tripathi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_celebrity_nude_photo_leak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_celebrity_nude_photo_leak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversial_Reddit_communities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversial_Reddit_communiti...
- 22289d 3y ago
  I think you just set the World Record for most strawmen in one comment. Congratulations. If you took what I said to be some type of blanket 'Reddit is a perfect and wonderful place' you misunderstood.

by 22289d 3y ago

kortilla 3y ago

> That culture is damned effective at filtering out bullshit and bad actors and getting to the facts. Lol, that’s not at all what the culture is good at. It’s an internet mob with famous examples of false accusations, doxxing and harassment. Any subreddit that isn’t severely moderated is gamed by people who know how to appeal to the local crowd. Being cynical and anti-business is not about “getting to the facts”. It just means they need a different type of marketing.

22289d 3y ago
I can see that Reddit really hurt you. On behalf of the community, I'm sorry. > It just means they need a different type of marketing. That's correct. And Step #1 is to have a product which will make it past the collective bullshit detector. Step #2 is to provide real and actual value. To have a legitimately good product. So much of marketing is built on deception. If you try to deceive Redditors, you're going to get told to fk urself. People who can't complete step 1 or 2 and want to employ deception-based marketing often tell a tail like yours. It's our fault for not just taking what you tell us at face value and handing over our money. However all of the people appending 'Reddit' to their search queries instead of reading the deception-based marketing pages that fill up Google results, may understand where I'm coming from.
- throwaway743 3y ago
  > I can see that Reddit really hurt you. On behalf of the community, I'm sorry. Dude doesn't seem hurt, they're just spitting facts.
  - 22289d 3y ago
    That was an extremely biased and jaded characterization that focuses only on a narrow set of negatives. Have those things happened on Reddit? Ya. Was that in any way an accurate summary of what Reddit is? No. And it's absurd to claim that it is. "But look at this example and this one" I could make a huge list of the times Reddit has been bad, too. That doesn't change a single thing about what I just said.
    - wholinator2 3y ago
      I think the problem is that we're talking about "reddit" like it's one group of people who have the same characteristic responses to things across time. But the whole point of reddit is for there to be disparate communities who may or may not communicate with each other and may or may not share or hold diametrically opposing views on any topic that can be written in words. When submitting to reddit, you elplicitely cannot submit just to "reddit", you have to choose a subreddit. These subreddit can be as varied in response as humans can, even when apparently sharing the same topic/goal. Subreddits turn toxic sometimes, sometimes they're made that way intentionally. Some are hard fought places of positive intent with strong moderation and some are 'wild west'. Sometimes places get toxic enough that someone else creates a similarly named subreddit with an identical goal but attempts to cultivate and moderate a positive environment. If you didn't know about this you'd see 2 identical subreddits, when you post you'll get 2 very different receptions. "Reddit"s response is entirely dependent upon subreddit. We cannot argue about how "reddit" reacts, and it's impractical to talk about individual redditors, the communities within, the subreddits, are the unit about which we can have meaningful conversation. There's no point in arguing about whether reddit has hurt someone or not or whether their reception was beneficial or degrading the community without knowing _which_ Community. There are places that will hurt everyone, there are places that will reject every product, there are places that won't. They are different places
TeMPOraL 3y ago
> Lol, that’s not at all what the culture is good at. It’s an internet mob with famous examples of false accusations, doxxing and harassment. You're both wrong :). There is no "Reddit culture"; on Reddit, culture is scoped to a subreddit. You and GP are likely hanging out on different kinds of subreddits - but if your experience is that of "an internet mob with famous examples of false accusations, doxxing and harassment", I strongly suggest you rethink which subreddits you follow. Yes, they probably need a different type of marketing, but they're probably also not worth it for technical products. > Being cynical and anti-business is not about “getting to the facts”. It's hard to tell, because cynicism and healthy realism overlap nearly 100% when it comes to modern business.
- 22289d 3y ago
  > There is no "Reddit culture"; on Reddit, culture is scoped to a subreddit. There is both. For example, anonymity. There is nothing stopping people from using their real name as their username or openly revealing who they are, where they live and work etc. But the Reddit culture is to be anonymous. Are there exceptions? Yes. But those exceptions don't change that it's an anonymous culture.
- kortilla 3y ago
  Oh I’m aware different subreddits have different cultures, but doxxing and mob behavior emerge from any large enough online anonymous crowd. Humans at scale are petty and vindictive. HN even has to have rules about it because it’s been a problem here even when the site was much smaller. Any particular subreddit will have a specific ideological soft spot that a dedicated marketer will be able to identify and craft turf to exploit. It’s a fundamental flaw to anonymity.

duxup 3y ago

> That culture is damned effective at filtering out bullshit and bad actors and getting to the facts. That’s not my experience at all. I’m curious what makes you think that?

22289d 3y ago
> I’m curious what makes you think that? 15+ years of living on Reddit. Is it perfect at those things? Of course not. Can you and I and others provide a bunch of examples of those things not happening? Of course. It's still damned good at them. I expanded at length here on how this works with regard to people trying to promote their products: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37703112 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37703112 But it applies to all sorts of stuff, depending on the subreddit. Investing advice, sports trivia, historical facts, whatever.
- duxup 3y ago
  That link didn’t really explain anything. Are you talking about specific subreddits or topics? I’ve found the negativity on Reddit to be more likely as to come from completely ignorant sources as anyone with actual knowledge. I'm pretty surprised anyone on there for a long period of time would be so trusting of the community there.
  - 22289d 3y ago
    > Are you talking about specific subreddits or topics? I'm talking about the culture of the entire site. From tiny subreddits to huge ones and every topic. > I’ve found the negativity on Reddit to be more likely as to come from completely ignorant sources as anyone with actual knowledge. Maybe we're talking about different things here. You seem to be referring to jerks. I was referring to people calling stuff out. People can call things out politely. One could say you're doing it right now - you disagree with me and you're explaining why. You're not being negative but what you're doing would be an example of what I mean. Redditors do this. If they see something they think is wrong, they say so. Sometimes in great numbers. Sometimes politely, sometimes very rude. Sometimes with the IQ of a hamster and sometimes it's a genius. But they let you know. > I'm pretty surprised anyone on there for a long period of time would be so trusting of the community there. I don't know what you mean by trusting. They're not always right. I don't automatically believe whatever they say. It's like in Jackie Brown. 'You can't trust melanie, but you can always trust melanie to be melanie.' I trust Reddit to be Reddit. If they see something they don't agree with or think is false or think is misleading or think is not the best way - they're gonna let you know.

newZWhoDis 3y ago

>That culture is damned effective at filtering out bullshit and bad actors and getting to the facts. Meanwhile the “inverse Reddit” investing strategy works even better than “inverse Cramer” Reddit comments are the whiskey to YouTube comment’s beer on the stupidity index.

22289d 3y ago
I guess it depends at what point you buy. A lot of people on Reddit got generational fuck you money betting on GME, Bitcoin and a lot of other stuff. But if you're getting your Reddit tips from CNN then ya you're probably too late.
- romafirst3 3y ago
  Have you seen the receipts or are you just parroting what they are saying on social media?
  - duxup 3y ago
    I'm suspecting this other user has some naive / ideological-ish belief in the reddit community or something.
    - 22289d 3y ago
      Probably what's happening is I'm doing a poor job of communicating what I mean. To me if I say 'they aren't always right' that's enough and I have clearly articulated that Reddit can be and is on a regular basis, completely idiotic, absurdly wrong and all flavor of other bad things. But evidently not as people keep saying things like you just did.
  - 22289d 3y ago
    lol parroting what they say on social media. Very interesting way you put that and sorta gets to the heart of the matter. To me it doesn't even make sense, like, why would I get my information on social media. I'm telling you what I've seen on Reddit. But you went to what people say other places. Which is clearly how a lot of you are getting your information. And ya, I've seen the receipts. I've got some receipts of my own.

romphl 3y ago

One example that came to mind was Apollo app where their users came to bat for them during that whole third-party apps fiasco.

llbeansandrice 3y ago

> That culture is damned effective at filtering out bullshit and bad actors and getting to the facts. No idea how anyone can say this earnestly about Reddit while having spent as much time there as you claim you have. It's a horrible corner of the internet rife with all kinds of bigotry and hatred and negativity for the sake of it. Not to mention it's the easiest place to astroturf ever. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Sunil_Tripathi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Sunil_Tripathi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_celebrity_nude_photo_leak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_celebrity_nude_photo_leak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversial_Reddit_communities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversial_Reddit_communiti...

22289d 3y ago
I think you just set the World Record for most strawmen in one comment. Congratulations. If you took what I said to be some type of blanket 'Reddit is a perfect and wonderful place' you misunderstood.