4 ms·

This point was discussed at length over the years. You have your opinion on it. Likely different from mine. At this point I don't think any of us can change the

by jraph 3y ago

This point was discussed at length over the years. You have your opinion on it. Likely different from mine. At this point I don't think any of us can change their mind, we both have been forming our respective opinion for a long time now. Let me precise my phrasing: you might have read this thing with "really subtle and careful reading" and reached a different opinion from mine. I believe it. It's fine. But I do maintain that, in any case, you need really subtle and careful reading to avoid jumping to widely wrong conclusions. I think it was easy to understand horrible things from his wording by skipping a word or two or thinking too fast. The thing with Stallman in particular is that he is particularly very careful with his wording, and I think this whole MIT discussion was no counterexample to this. It's up to us to understand the right thing and it is clear that strongly different interpretations emerged this time, for some reason. And what's worse is that his clarifications might have strengthened both interpretations. Anyway, that's why I said "Regardless on one's opinion" on the matter. It's easy to find inappropriate comments on RMS that defame him.

_cenw 3y ago
That's a long way to say "I gave every statement the maximum benefit of doubt". A lot of people need to learn that culturally engrained bad behaviors aren't the same as intentionally being a bad person. But neither does it free you from responsibility for your behavior.
- jraph 3y ago
  > That's a long way to say "I gave every statement the maximum benefit of doubt". I don't agree. I questioned his statements quite hard. Because I already knew at the time that he was not well-behaved with women. Now, be aware that I almost fully agree with the rest of this comment and your other comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37699851#37702338 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37699851#37702338. [*] What one thinks / what one's ideals are is different from how one actually behaves. Especially when speaking about sexism. Apart from obviously bad behavior, there are many things we do that are sexist without even us noticing and it's important to be aware of this so it can be fixed. [*] With a difference: I understand a "misogynist" as someone who actively dislike women. See [1]. Sexism ≠ misogyny. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny

by jraph 3y ago

_cenw 3y ago

That's a long way to say "I gave every statement the maximum benefit of doubt". A lot of people need to learn that culturally engrained bad behaviors aren't the same as intentionally being a bad person. But neither does it free you from responsibility for your behavior.

jraph 3y ago
> That's a long way to say "I gave every statement the maximum benefit of doubt". I don't agree. I questioned his statements quite hard. Because I already knew at the time that he was not well-behaved with women. Now, be aware that I almost fully agree with the rest of this comment and your other comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37699851#37702338 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37699851#37702338. [*] What one thinks / what one's ideals are is different from how one actually behaves. Especially when speaking about sexism. Apart from obviously bad behavior, there are many things we do that are sexist without even us noticing and it's important to be aware of this so it can be fixed. [*] With a difference: I understand a "misogynist" as someone who actively dislike women. See [1]. Sexism ≠ misogyny. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny