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That's also the secret to getting an interesting plot easily. It comes up so often in fiction because it's interesting. And it's possible to get things more co
by unalone 18y ago
That's also the secret to getting an interesting plot easily.
It comes up so often in fiction because it's interesting. And it's possible to get things more complex and keep it interesting, but it's much, much harder. Even Ulysses, which is famous for being about an ordinary person going about an ordinary day, has the main character a Jew in Ireland - which is rare - and adds Dedalus, who is too smart for his own good.
Difference equals interest. That's not masturbatory. That's fact.
- Alex3917 18y agoI have to disagree. The idea that we're going to wake up one day and something is going to happen that's going to make us better or more important than everyone else is pretty much the dictionary definition of masturbatory.
- icky 18y agoRead your Joseph Campbell before categorically dismissing half of all fiction in human history.
- Alex3917 18y agoI've pretty much dismissed all fiction for the reason that unalone mentions: fiction is designed to be interesting. And I don't like reading stuff that's interesting. I mean I do occasionally, but it rarely holds my attention. edit: I have wanted to read Campbell for awhile though, maybe that will be my next book.
- icky 18y ago> And I don't like reading stuff that's interesting. I mean I do occasionally, but it rarely holds my attention. I can totally relate: I hate food that tastes good, and breathing oxygen.
- unalone 18y agoMan was that snarky. You read fiction for the things that interest you. If an "interesting" thing doesn't hold your attention, it's not interesting. I find that some authors remain interesting upon multiple rereads, while others fall apart rapidly. But fiction can say things that nonfiction can't, because with fiction you can create an entire artificial construct just to prove a point.
- icky 18y ago> Man was that snarky. Yes. We methane-breathing anti-gourmets are known for our occasional lapses into snarkishness.
- Alex3917 18y agoHumor, as pg succinctly puts it, comes from novel breakages. (There are academic studies confirming this.) So keeping that in mind, it's possible that something can be objectively funny without anyone actually finding humor in it. (For example, if they don't see the breakage or they just don't care.) Interesting works the same way. Something can be objectively interesting without anyone actually finding it interesting. If this sounds funny, it's because words are defined as used. And there are certain words that are used differently than what they actually mean. For example, if I asked you for an interesting idea you wouldn't tell me the number of penguins in Antarctica, because we all accept that a fact is different than an idea. But if you look in a dictionary, you'll see the word idea defined as if it were a fact, even though we all agree that it's not. Why? Because in practice when people use the word idea it's almost always in the context of "give me an idea of how big this room is" or something like that. I.e., in most cases idea is used as a synonym for fact, even though we agree that this isn't what an idea is. You'd have to look in a really good dictionary and scroll all the way to the bottom of the list of definitions to even get a hint that this is the case, and even then they won't give you a good working definition. So what is interesting? Unalone nails it when he says something different. That is, something that breaks with our mental models of how the world works, but without actually suggesting a new set of more accurate schemas (which would be insightful.) I prefer reading insightful stuff to interesting stuff, which is why I say that reading stuff that's interesting (objectively) doesn't hold my (subjective) interest.
- unalone 18y agoI don't know about you, but I'm already better and more important than everyone else. :-P But I think that Card needed that character for his story. I've read his original novella, and Ender's not quite as ridiculous in that one, and it doesn't work as well. Card needs a completely outstanding hero or his idea doesn't work.
- gruseom 18y agoThe idea that we're going to wake up one day and something is going to happen that's going to make us better or more important than everyone else is pretty much the dictionary definition of masturbatory. Well, maybe not the dictionary definition.