10 ms·
What would happen?
by MadSudaca 3y ago
What would happen?
- DaiPlusPlus 3y agoThe rabid anti-communism of Cuban diaspora in FL is so extreme it's driven them right into the GOP's arms for their votes; the amazing thing is how they've done it despite the racism just-below-the-surface there.
- robertlagrant 3y agoAgreed. People fleeing Communism are the last people you want to listen to regarding Communism. Dismiss them as rabid and move on.
- calderknight 3y agoI presume you're being ironic. One should listen to them. One should also be aware of the massive selection bias in views you're going to hear.
- MadSudaca 3y agoYou’d say the opinions of people back home would presumably be different?
- calderknight 3y agoYes, I would say so, on the average. I think that people leaving a country are more likely to dislike that country than those staying.
- MadSudaca 3y agoIt's possible a lot of people would like to leave but can't. Also, some people would like to return, missing the cultural aspects of the country they left behind or their families, but can't because they're unable to sustain themselves there, they need to continue helping their families economically and depend on the higher wages of where they're residing, or they're afraid because it's dangerous.
- calderknight 3y agoAny number of things may be true. But one cannot sensibly infer those things from this sample of people that is very far from being a random sample, but is actually a heavily selected sample. If you're really interested in the state of things "back home", don't seek out a group of people who are very likely to be slanted toward having a particular view (whether that view be positive or negative), and when they express that view conclude that all must have that view. All may have that view, but to conclude that it is actually the case, based on such terrible evidence, is totally absurd!
- MadSudaca 3y agoI'll grant you that it's not a random sample and that there will be some skewness in opinions. But ignoring the wider context of the journey that these people must have made, and considering the nature of totalitarian governments, it seems to me that you're taking an obtuse position.
- calderknight 3y agoIt seems that you have come to agree with me, but haven't realised it yet! You're saying that we must look at more than just the skewed sample, and that's exactly my point.
- robertlagrant 3y agoI don't think that's correct. The point is you can't just dismiss based on selection bias. You could say that the survivors of the Titanic didn't want to drown, sure, but you're selecting for the people who survived. The people who all drowned might have wanted to! I.e. there's a balance. People basically always migrating in one direction must tell you something other than "those exact people just wanted to".
- calderknight 3y agoCan you please point out for me specifically where you and I disagree?
- lelanthran 3y ago> I presume you're being ironic. > One should listen to them. > One should also be aware of the massive selection bias in views you're going to hear. And I presume that you feel the ones who died trying to escape would have a different opinion of communism than the ones who lived to produce your selection bias?
- jodrellblank 3y ago> "for many other people he represents a depostic regime that routinely violates human rights" "The Democratic People's Republic of Murderistan is a human rights violating hellhole, so that's what you want whenever you say you support Democracy. There is no selection bias from people from there because they should know what Democracy is if anyone does".
- lelanthran 3y ago> "The Democratic People's Republic of Murderistan is a human rights violating hellhole, so that's what you want whenever you say you support Democracy. There is no selection bias from people from there because they should know what Democracy is if anyone does". I think the difference is that we have more than one example of masses of people fleeing to democracies, even if they have to do so illegally, while there are no examples of masses of people fleeing to communist countries. It's pretty obvious what the non-armchair citizens of various governing styles prefer, and what they don't.
- robertlagrant 3y ago> One should also be aware of the massive selection bias in views you're going to hear. Absolutely. The dead tell no tales.
- thiagoharry 3y agoWell, here in Brazil I met once a Cuban which was traveling and was a undergraduated student who wanted to vecame a filmmaker. Here we do not have the same incentives that attract dissidents nor we offer incentives in the form of citizenship for people who risk their lives in improvised boats (if US offered the same incentive for other latin american countries, lots of people in other countries would also build improvised boats and risk their lives like the Cubans do). We talked a lot about movies.Regarding Cuba and its government, his oppinion was mostly positive, with only some criticisms. And, oh, he was an alive person.
- badpun 3y agoShow me the countries (ok, even one country) in the world where people are happy that they are/were under communism. In other words, it's not selection bias when everybody holds more or less the same opinion.
- calderknight 3y agoRussia, China, Vietnam. Anyway, you're being illogical. A flawed argument will remain just as flawed when it is used to reach a true conclusion as when it is used to reach a false conclusion. If you want to prove me wrong, show that it is sensible to infer from the fact that an extremely selected-for sample has some property that the entire population has that same property - and do so without appealing to a bigger picture. Because if you were to claim that appealing to a bigger picture is necessary, you would be making the selfsame claim that I am making.
- robertlagrant 3y agoThe Russian and Chinese death toll under Communism went into the mid to high tens of millions, no?
- tm-guimaraes 3y agoThink of the benefits! Plenty of wrong opinions we don’t get to hear!
- calderknight 3y agoYou seem to be focusing on something quite beside the point. Anyway. Under communism, China went from being "the sick man of Asia" to the most economically successful and politically powerful country in Asia, no? It's the greatest single power on Earth other than the USA, no? But perhaps under a capitalist regime China might have had even greater success? Well, let us see: How does one compare the stumbles of early Communist China to the consistent failure of capitalist India? Which path would you have preferred for your country?
- 3y ago
- latency-guy2 3y agoI don't know why leftists act confused about why they are so hated throughout the world. They are blatant about it in so much of their behavior and pretend like they're proverbially morally and intellectually superior in every single way. It's like they're never falsifiable, and if they are its because everyone else in the world is stupid in comparison. Then there comes the persecution complex. The horror.
- lern_too_spel 3y agoThe racism suits many of them fine. https://www.nytimes.com/1987/12/02/us/black-cubans-apart-in-two-worlds.html https://www.nytimes.com/1987/12/02/us/black-cubans-apart-in-...
- bigstrat2003 3y agoI think you should perhaps consider this as a data point that indicates either a) the racism you think is there isn't actually, or b) it's not as strong as you seem to believe.
- throwaway124896 3y agoMiami is filled with Latin-American families with a poor view of latin-American revolutionaries.
- theodric 3y agoMiami has a large community of people who risked their lives and abandoned everything to flee Cuba to go hang out with the capitalist pigdogs in the USA. Their hospitality toward communist revolutionaries would be somewhat chillier than what you'd receive on a northeastern college campus. It's unlikely this would extend to violence, but you might get some remarks.
- DaiPlusPlus 3y agoI know you're being facetious, but it really didn't land well.
- oasisaimlessly 3y agoHe's not being facetious.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]