5 ms·

Once you start reading some more accurate history of famous people in the past you will find out that pretty much everybody did things that today would get you

Once you start reading some more accurate history of famous people in the past you will find out that pretty much everybody did things that today would get you canceled. Nobody is perfect. World is moved forward by imperfect people that are able to do something productive for the society.

Ensorceled 3y ago
> pretty much everybody did things that today would get you canceled Do you have some examples of someone being “cancelled” in this way?
- bsdnoob 3y ago
  Stallman himself
  - Ensorceled 3y ago
    The guy who just gave a well attended speech to loud applause and is getting gushing well wishes in this very conversation? The guy who is back at the FSF? That guy?
    - calderknight 3y ago
      There is a difference between "cancelled" and "permanently cancelled and also hated by all". One can be cancelled but still adored by the masses - see Norman Finkelstein One can be cancelled but still adored by minority - see Socrates One can be cancelled but later regain his previous position - See Richard Stallman
  - cauch 3y ago
    Was he canceled? From what I understand, Stallman had several role at FSF. One of them was spokesperson, which is basically Public Relationship. Then, he made several actions showing that he does not understand the basis or does not have the skills to work in PR. So, we was asked to step down from this position. If you hire a front-end developer and later discover that they are not able to do the basis of programming, are you "canceling" the developer if you decide to not continue to work with them because they are not what you need for the job? (As for MIT, apparently, it's based on a series of incidents. Again, his work requirement included skills that would imply he would not have done those mistakes. Positions a universities obviously includes as requirement basic skills in knowledge communication and ability to work with pairs, that's what universities are supposed to do.)
- calderknight 3y ago
  Aren't there countless examples of people who have been cancelled in this way to various degrees? People accused of sexual crimes, racist beliefs, fringe moral views, heretical religious/theological beliefs, etc. have been cancelled countless times both recently and all throughout recorded history. Examples: * Norman Finkelstein (blacklisted from Academia for his work relating to the Israel/Palestine conflict) * Richard Stallman (made to resign from his positions at MIT and FSF due to comments relating to Marvin Minsky and Jeffrey Epstein) * James Watson (ostracized from the scientific community due to his comments about race) * Justin Roiland (forced out of Rick and Morty due to alleged crimes) etc.
  - Ensorceled 3y ago
    > Norman Finkelstein (blacklisted from Academia for his work relating to the Israel/Palestine conflict) He wasn't "cancelled" for being "woke", that's straight up political fallout for going up against Israeli interests. > Richard Stallman (made to resign from his positions at MIT and FSF due to comments relating to Marvin Minsky and Jeffrey Epstein) He's back at FSF. Clearly not "cancelled" as evidenced by this entire thread. He received relatively mild repercussions for supporting a known sexual predator combined with his own list of accusations of sexual predation. > James Watson This is the only one that is possibly a "cancelation" and that's a stretch. Being repeatedly and openly racist and then getting kicked out of your cushy chancellor emeritus position because of it, again, doesn't feel like "cancellation". > Justin Roiland (forced out of Rick and Morty due to alleged crimes) Ah yes, the "guilty until proven innocent" version of "cancellation" ... not associating with people with multiple credible accusations of crimes is not "cancelling" them.
    - kypro 3y ago
      Cancelled is probably the wrong word. I think what the other commenter meant was that the moral reputation of individuals tends to decline with time since what is considered moral is relative to a given society and a given period of time. It's very hard to name a historical figure who lived prior to the 1900s who didn't express something racist, sexist or homophobic for example. Similarly, even people who were in the public spotlight 4-5 decades ago have often said things considered morally objectionable today. Even people who are obviously anti-racist like Justin Trudeau used to believe black face was acceptable until very recently, for example. I don't know if Stallman has been "cancelled". I'm not even sure what that means. But his reputation has been harmed like almost anyone who's been in the public spotlight for long enough.
oblio 3y ago
> today would get you canceled I hate that word. It's not being "cancelled". It's being called out for being a jerk, and it's past overdue we did that. For the Stallman case the impact of "cancellation" was probably 0, anyway.
- Aspie96 3y ago
  The word "cancelled" is often used by plenty of people who "cancel" people, by happily claiming that someone is "cancelled". The issue isn't just being "called out for being a jerk". It's one thing to call someone a jerk. It's another thing to be entirely unwilling to look at facts objectively, to reason about them, to listen to those defending the person and yet throw wild allegations, as well as vilifying anything an anyone that is in any way close to that person. Nobody is actually concerned about "cancelling" just because people call each other "jerks". You can call me a jerk if you want. I won't feel cancelled.
op00to 3y ago
> Nobody is perfect. Perhaps, but we all know not to make other people uncomfortable by staring at their secondary sex characterists. RMS is an adult, he should know better than to treat women like objects like I saw him do at my university.

Ensorceled 3y ago

> pretty much everybody did things that today would get you canceled Do you have some examples of someone being “cancelled” in this way?

bsdnoob 3y ago
Stallman himself
- Ensorceled 3y ago
  The guy who just gave a well attended speech to loud applause and is getting gushing well wishes in this very conversation? The guy who is back at the FSF? That guy?
  - calderknight 3y ago
    There is a difference between "cancelled" and "permanently cancelled and also hated by all". One can be cancelled but still adored by the masses - see Norman Finkelstein One can be cancelled but still adored by minority - see Socrates One can be cancelled but later regain his previous position - See Richard Stallman
- cauch 3y ago
  Was he canceled? From what I understand, Stallman had several role at FSF. One of them was spokesperson, which is basically Public Relationship. Then, he made several actions showing that he does not understand the basis or does not have the skills to work in PR. So, we was asked to step down from this position. If you hire a front-end developer and later discover that they are not able to do the basis of programming, are you "canceling" the developer if you decide to not continue to work with them because they are not what you need for the job? (As for MIT, apparently, it's based on a series of incidents. Again, his work requirement included skills that would imply he would not have done those mistakes. Positions a universities obviously includes as requirement basic skills in knowledge communication and ability to work with pairs, that's what universities are supposed to do.)
calderknight 3y ago
Aren't there countless examples of people who have been cancelled in this way to various degrees? People accused of sexual crimes, racist beliefs, fringe moral views, heretical religious/theological beliefs, etc. have been cancelled countless times both recently and all throughout recorded history. Examples: * Norman Finkelstein (blacklisted from Academia for his work relating to the Israel/Palestine conflict) * Richard Stallman (made to resign from his positions at MIT and FSF due to comments relating to Marvin Minsky and Jeffrey Epstein) * James Watson (ostracized from the scientific community due to his comments about race) * Justin Roiland (forced out of Rick and Morty due to alleged crimes) etc.
- Ensorceled 3y ago
  > Norman Finkelstein (blacklisted from Academia for his work relating to the Israel/Palestine conflict) He wasn't "cancelled" for being "woke", that's straight up political fallout for going up against Israeli interests. > Richard Stallman (made to resign from his positions at MIT and FSF due to comments relating to Marvin Minsky and Jeffrey Epstein) He's back at FSF. Clearly not "cancelled" as evidenced by this entire thread. He received relatively mild repercussions for supporting a known sexual predator combined with his own list of accusations of sexual predation. > James Watson This is the only one that is possibly a "cancelation" and that's a stretch. Being repeatedly and openly racist and then getting kicked out of your cushy chancellor emeritus position because of it, again, doesn't feel like "cancellation". > Justin Roiland (forced out of Rick and Morty due to alleged crimes) Ah yes, the "guilty until proven innocent" version of "cancellation" ... not associating with people with multiple credible accusations of crimes is not "cancelling" them.
  - kypro 3y ago
    Cancelled is probably the wrong word. I think what the other commenter meant was that the moral reputation of individuals tends to decline with time since what is considered moral is relative to a given society and a given period of time. It's very hard to name a historical figure who lived prior to the 1900s who didn't express something racist, sexist or homophobic for example. Similarly, even people who were in the public spotlight 4-5 decades ago have often said things considered morally objectionable today. Even people who are obviously anti-racist like Justin Trudeau used to believe black face was acceptable until very recently, for example. I don't know if Stallman has been "cancelled". I'm not even sure what that means. But his reputation has been harmed like almost anyone who's been in the public spotlight for long enough.

oblio 3y ago

> today would get you canceled I hate that word. It's not being "cancelled". It's being called out for being a jerk, and it's past overdue we did that. For the Stallman case the impact of "cancellation" was probably 0, anyway.

Aspie96 3y ago
The word "cancelled" is often used by plenty of people who "cancel" people, by happily claiming that someone is "cancelled". The issue isn't just being "called out for being a jerk". It's one thing to call someone a jerk. It's another thing to be entirely unwilling to look at facts objectively, to reason about them, to listen to those defending the person and yet throw wild allegations, as well as vilifying anything an anyone that is in any way close to that person. Nobody is actually concerned about "cancelling" just because people call each other "jerks". You can call me a jerk if you want. I won't feel cancelled.

op00to 3y ago

> Nobody is perfect. Perhaps, but we all know not to make other people uncomfortable by staring at their secondary sex characterists. RMS is an adult, he should know better than to treat women like objects like I saw him do at my university.