4 ms·

I don't think Stallman has been unreasonable in pointing out that rape definition is "forcing someone to have sex against their will" but, as per victim's depos

I don't think Stallman has been unreasonable in pointing out that rape definition is "forcing someone to have sex against their will" but, as per victim's deposition, she was instructed to seduce and have sex with Minsky by Epstein. Is it so unreasonable to not call Minsky a rapist? Even the victim herself points out that Minsky was not aware of her being coerced. I have no real sympathy for Stallman besides his FS movement, I find the man disgusting for many reasons, last but not least his hygiene, and his statements about pedophilia were another part of this disgust (albeit he later condemned his own words and apologized). But taking his words out of context to say that he is a rape apologists is no more than Twitter-level witchunting.

C0mm0nS3ns3 3y ago
I wanted to say exactly this (the first part, I don't care enough about Stallman to have any kind of opinion about him). In plenty of countries in the world (including UK) the age of consent in 16 (which personally I find problematic but there's nothing I can do about it). So the objection Stallman raised is not irrational. Not only was it not "forcing someone to have sex against their will" but if it happened in a different country it would have been completely legal. Of course it did not happen in another country, it happened in a country where it was illegal, so it should be investigated and prosecuted but as sleeping with an underage person not as rape.
- epolanski 3y ago
  The same happens in the other direction though. Just because you can marry a child in some parts of the world doesn't mean I'm not gonna consider sex with a 12 years old anything but rape just because it doesn't break local law.
  - C0mm0nS3ns3 3y ago
    Doesn't this contradict your previous statement where you defined rape as "forcing someone to have sex against their will"? Is having sex with a 12 years old despicable and morally unexcusable? Yes. Is it rape? Unless you're willing to say a 12 years old doesn't have a will at all, calling it rape contradicts your own definition.
gigatexal 3y ago
Having had these thoughts in relation to this one case where the victim was 17 does nothing to hide the idea that he held these beliefs and what did that mean for other cases when it came up in other contexts?
- epolanski 3y ago
  If one feels the need to make judgements it should at least try to stick to facts, not speculations.
  - gigatexal 3y ago
    fair enough anyways i hope he beats cancer

C0mm0nS3ns3 3y ago

I wanted to say exactly this (the first part, I don't care enough about Stallman to have any kind of opinion about him). In plenty of countries in the world (including UK) the age of consent in 16 (which personally I find problematic but there's nothing I can do about it). So the objection Stallman raised is not irrational. Not only was it not "forcing someone to have sex against their will" but if it happened in a different country it would have been completely legal. Of course it did not happen in another country, it happened in a country where it was illegal, so it should be investigated and prosecuted but as sleeping with an underage person not as rape.

epolanski 3y ago
The same happens in the other direction though. Just because you can marry a child in some parts of the world doesn't mean I'm not gonna consider sex with a 12 years old anything but rape just because it doesn't break local law.
- C0mm0nS3ns3 3y ago
  Doesn't this contradict your previous statement where you defined rape as "forcing someone to have sex against their will"? Is having sex with a 12 years old despicable and morally unexcusable? Yes. Is it rape? Unless you're willing to say a 12 years old doesn't have a will at all, calling it rape contradicts your own definition.

gigatexal 3y ago

Having had these thoughts in relation to this one case where the victim was 17 does nothing to hide the idea that he held these beliefs and what did that mean for other cases when it came up in other contexts?

epolanski 3y ago
If one feels the need to make judgements it should at least try to stick to facts, not speculations.
- gigatexal 3y ago
  fair enough anyways i hope he beats cancer