5 ms·

Were these caused by the same policies too: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Biker_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Biker_War Anyone that’s bee

Were these caused by the same policies too: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Biker_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Biker_War Anyone that’s been to sweden can see how segregated some of these people lived for “decades”, and not by their choice. What i dont understand is why such countries advertise themselves as “welcoming” when in fact are pretty unwelcoming and closed. No wonder people struggle to integrate. People dont just appear from nowhere, they are being pulled by certain factors - one being that the swedish economy is supposedly advanced. Instead though, sweden, germany, etc want what they call “cheap labour” - a people living in perpetual poverty doing jobs “the locals dont want”. All masked by virtue signaling. Well it turns out the cheap labour doesnt want to live like a perpetual underclass and wants a way out. These criminal acts are just signs of desperation. I think they should be dealt with swiftly and boldly and the criminal element rooted out but people need to be given a real chance to integrate. Regardless, sweden is now a changed country and will remain so.

Gud 3y ago
This has nothing to do with cheap labor. This has everything to do with politicians doubling down on policies that don't work to save face, rather than to admit they were wrong. What is being done now is too little too late. The Swedes who are generally good people, will never do what is now required(mass deportation). Nordic Biker War? Where 10 people died in all of Scandinavia over a decade time? You think this is at all comparable? 10 people die on a W E E K L Y basis in Sweden, almost exclusively young migrant men(usually 2nd generation). Indeed, Sweden(=Swedish left wing and liberal politicians) should not have been pursuing this extreme policy of open borders from Africa and the Middle East. The Swedish people were never in favor of mass immigration, despite the amount of propaganda they were fed on a daily basis by SVT & SR(Swedish state broadcast).
- wsatb 3y ago
  You gave no evidence as to why cheap labor has nothing to do with it. Poverty breeds violence, we know this. Sweden’s income inequality is growing fast. There is also loads of evidence in the USA that segregation breeds violence as well because they generally don’t receive equal public service. It’s all a cycle. You can’t bring people in without serving them fairly. Maybe their mistake was bringing in too many people and not the “wrong” people.
  - Gud 3y ago
    Swedens income equality is growing fast because they are continuously bringing in more people who can not and never will contribute to their economy. This will take generations to fix, if it is possible.
    - gumballindie 3y ago
      Those people simply can't contribute. But it's not because they don't want to, there isn't much to contribute towards. The swedish economy, as any corporate-socialist economy, isn't able to absorb people - unless of course they are "cheap" and two can replace one. And that's where the issue comes from. Some of those people have had enough of being an underclass and the only way out it appears is through crime. What else are they going to do? Start a business? Sell components to volvo and ikea? Those types of small businesses have been obliterated as in any country dominated by corporations. So these people can't contribute by working because there's no economic growth and can't start a business because state-private enterprises can't grow fast enough.
      - Gud 3y ago
        They can take up gainful employment just like everybody else. There is high demand for labor in Sweden. You can’t be serious.
      - rosmax_1337 3y ago
        If the only problem was socio-economic, it would affect native Swedes as well. The problem is actually not socio-economic with these people.
imartin2k 3y ago
“ What i dont understand is why such countries advertise themselves as “welcoming” when in fact are pretty unwelcoming and closed.” Good observation. Probably the answer is that it felt morally good in the short term. Many members of the “educated class” in Sweden wanted to feel good about doing what they believed was right, but just as long as it didn’t mean actually having to be too close to the newcomers. So they kept filling up the (in relative terms) unattractive remote districts and tried for a long time to look away while problems there built up and gang shootings and bombings became frequent I’ve heard hypotheses about Sweden’s collective guilt about having helped the Nazis during the 2nd world war being a possible cause for the posture as “moral superpower” which shaped the politics of the later decades.
rosmax_1337 3y ago
The immigration was never an economic benefit for Sweden, I recall that someone calculated that the average immigrant was actually a net cost for the nation, given the disproportionate amount of welfare costs that it takes to take in these people. The idea that we took them in against their will and because we wanted to exploit them, is a very wrong idea on more than a factual level, in fact it reeks of the kind of passive aggressive gaslighting that seeks to propagandize Swedish men and women to hate themselves. And even then, theories about why it didn't work is certainly something that belongs in an ivory tower. Now we need decisive policy to correct this giant error, no matter "what caused the error". Mass deportation is the only solution that I see, and the more we wait in implementing it, I predict the less peaceful the outcome will be.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  Sweden’s only option is to learn how to live with it. The criminal element shouldn't be deported. Should stay there and pay and be a witness to a new sweden were these issues are solved. Deporting them means letting them get away with it and potentially do worse things elsewhere, or spread resentment. I think an iron fist should be used in punishing those guilty and a soft and gentle hand towards those who are not. The society should also genuinely open towards everyone and accept that being swedish is no longer a blue eyed blond haired affair and never will be. The UK appears to have succeeded at that despite and in-spite of all the issues. Take notes from this country, as in my view, it is the most open among european countries.
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    > The society should also genuinely open towards everyone and accept that being swedish is no longer a blue eyed blond haired affair and never will be. replace that with any other sets of races an tell me if that's still acceptable
  - rosmax_1337 3y ago
    >Sweden’s only option is to learn how to live with it. There is another way.

Gud 3y ago

This has nothing to do with cheap labor. This has everything to do with politicians doubling down on policies that don't work to save face, rather than to admit they were wrong. What is being done now is too little too late. The Swedes who are generally good people, will never do what is now required(mass deportation). Nordic Biker War? Where 10 people died in all of Scandinavia over a decade time? You think this is at all comparable? 10 people die on a W E E K L Y basis in Sweden, almost exclusively young migrant men(usually 2nd generation). Indeed, Sweden(=Swedish left wing and liberal politicians) should not have been pursuing this extreme policy of open borders from Africa and the Middle East. The Swedish people were never in favor of mass immigration, despite the amount of propaganda they were fed on a daily basis by SVT & SR(Swedish state broadcast).

wsatb 3y ago
You gave no evidence as to why cheap labor has nothing to do with it. Poverty breeds violence, we know this. Sweden’s income inequality is growing fast. There is also loads of evidence in the USA that segregation breeds violence as well because they generally don’t receive equal public service. It’s all a cycle. You can’t bring people in without serving them fairly. Maybe their mistake was bringing in too many people and not the “wrong” people.
- Gud 3y ago
  Swedens income equality is growing fast because they are continuously bringing in more people who can not and never will contribute to their economy. This will take generations to fix, if it is possible.
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    Those people simply can't contribute. But it's not because they don't want to, there isn't much to contribute towards. The swedish economy, as any corporate-socialist economy, isn't able to absorb people - unless of course they are "cheap" and two can replace one. And that's where the issue comes from. Some of those people have had enough of being an underclass and the only way out it appears is through crime. What else are they going to do? Start a business? Sell components to volvo and ikea? Those types of small businesses have been obliterated as in any country dominated by corporations. So these people can't contribute by working because there's no economic growth and can't start a business because state-private enterprises can't grow fast enough.
    - Gud 3y ago
      They can take up gainful employment just like everybody else. There is high demand for labor in Sweden. You can’t be serious.
    - rosmax_1337 3y ago
      If the only problem was socio-economic, it would affect native Swedes as well. The problem is actually not socio-economic with these people.

imartin2k 3y ago

“ What i dont understand is why such countries advertise themselves as “welcoming” when in fact are pretty unwelcoming and closed.” Good observation. Probably the answer is that it felt morally good in the short term. Many members of the “educated class” in Sweden wanted to feel good about doing what they believed was right, but just as long as it didn’t mean actually having to be too close to the newcomers. So they kept filling up the (in relative terms) unattractive remote districts and tried for a long time to look away while problems there built up and gang shootings and bombings became frequent I’ve heard hypotheses about Sweden’s collective guilt about having helped the Nazis during the 2nd world war being a possible cause for the posture as “moral superpower” which shaped the politics of the later decades.

rosmax_1337 3y ago

The immigration was never an economic benefit for Sweden, I recall that someone calculated that the average immigrant was actually a net cost for the nation, given the disproportionate amount of welfare costs that it takes to take in these people. The idea that we took them in against their will and because we wanted to exploit them, is a very wrong idea on more than a factual level, in fact it reeks of the kind of passive aggressive gaslighting that seeks to propagandize Swedish men and women to hate themselves. And even then, theories about why it didn't work is certainly something that belongs in an ivory tower. Now we need decisive policy to correct this giant error, no matter "what caused the error". Mass deportation is the only solution that I see, and the more we wait in implementing it, I predict the less peaceful the outcome will be.

gumballindie 3y ago
Sweden’s only option is to learn how to live with it. The criminal element shouldn't be deported. Should stay there and pay and be a witness to a new sweden were these issues are solved. Deporting them means letting them get away with it and potentially do worse things elsewhere, or spread resentment. I think an iron fist should be used in punishing those guilty and a soft and gentle hand towards those who are not. The society should also genuinely open towards everyone and accept that being swedish is no longer a blue eyed blond haired affair and never will be. The UK appears to have succeeded at that despite and in-spite of all the issues. Take notes from this country, as in my view, it is the most open among european countries.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  > The society should also genuinely open towards everyone and accept that being swedish is no longer a blue eyed blond haired affair and never will be. replace that with any other sets of races an tell me if that's still acceptable
- rosmax_1337 3y ago
  >Sweden’s only option is to learn how to live with it. There is another way.