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>What would you consider proof of understanding? In the search engine/chatbot context pretty straight forward, having the capacity to automatically correct obv

>What would you consider proof of understanding? In the search engine/chatbot context pretty straight forward, having the capacity to automatically correct obviously illogical or non/counter factual info. Say I do a historical search and bing or chatgpt hallucinate something that's wildly implausible or straight up makes no sense. If it could spot that on its own and say. "I'll consult some credible sources specifically to resolve that, as what I have found doesn't check out" and then comes up with something that's congruent, that'd show understanding. Same with code. Understanding code would imply something like being able to run a code snippet through a debugger, interpret the meaning of the error message, and fixing what's broken. Right now these things give you nothing more but a stochastic guess. This is not a philosophical argument about what it "means" to understand btw, just real limitations. Right now it is always the user who has to supplement the understanding and coax these systems into fixing any mistake they make.

fragmede 3y ago
I don't know about historical search but as far as running code, the advanced data analysis will run python code, and you can ask it to iterate until it works. here we have an example where it output an answer, decided it wasn't good enough, and then came out with a second answer. https://chat.openai.com/share/0cec4f44-2245-45fd-b4c6-304e10c6b7f4 https://chat.openai.com/share/0cec4f44-2245-45fd-b4c6-304e10... Personally, I think we need new words to describe these things. Understanding, thinking, and reasoning don't really capture the meat of what it is and isn't doing. It's very good at a very specific slice of tasks, but it can also get fooled and be shown to be the stochastic parrot that lies beneath. But I spout incomprehensible gibberish when I get drunk, so, honestly, humans do that too.
- ToucanLoucan 3y ago
  I mean sure, but everything is not code. Most things aren't code. I'm not arguing this is useless for programmers, it seems most of the best examples of it are being used as kind of a second-set-of-eyes for developers. That sounds interesting and tbh I kinda wanna try some of that for my daily driving in development. But that's not what this is being sold as. This is being sold as a universal augment for all search engines. I have yet to see examples of it say, letting you know that a travel destination you're interested in is busy this time of year, and suggesting different dates. Or something like, noting that a car you want to buy has exceptionally bad safety ratings compared to similar models. That sort of thing. Contextual analysis that imparts a feeling, even if fleeting, that it actually knows what it's talking about. Like it seems to with code. > But I spout incomprehensible gibberish when I get drunk, so, honestly, humans do that too. Yeah and if you were habitually drunk at all hours of the day, I doubt many people would seek you out for advice?
  - fragmede 3y ago
    Lol, fair. I'm referring to SolidGoldMagikarp* being a gibberish inducing word to ChatGPT, but maybe drunk is the wrong analogy and PTSD is a better one. Don't bring up <topic> around <person> because they'll go off on an crazed, uninterruptible rant about <topic>. I think I see your point. If I tell it that I hate rain and want to visit, say, Boracay in August, it'll tell me that it's in the middle of their rainy season, but what you're looking for is a system that has an idea of who you are, and can give that advice without having to tell it that you hate rain, for example. If I ask it about buying a 1953 Chevrolet Bel Air, it doesn't mention safety until I ask it if it's safe, at which point it does tell me that it doesn't have modern features like crumple zones or air bags. Or seat belts. That's interesting. I find it kind of annoying when Clippy pops up and offers to help, or when Google Home says "by the way... <new feature>", but I can see where you're coming from. It would have to know me and who I am, and offer personalized opinions to demonstrate a thorough understanding of a topic, instead of me having to explicitly ask about specific aspects. * https://www.vice.com/en/article/epzyva/ai-chatgpt-tokens-words-break-reddit https://www.vice.com/en/article/epzyva/ai-chatgpt-tokens-wor...
    - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
      I mean I don't expect it to know me personally, I'm just saying, if you're calling this AI search, Artificially Intelligent Search, it could make a lot of assumptions about anyone, even people it's never met before, that would make it feel a lot more like an AI search engine than just a search engine chatbot. And considering that ML operates basically entirely in a world of averages weighted against it's input data, this seems like exactly the sort of thing it would traffic best in. If you ask it, for example, what color paint to use in a given room, it could use a set of assumptions to help inform that decision. Most people use eggshell colors for a slight reflectivity that brightens a room. Most people use warmer colors for similar reasons. Most people avoid super dark colors unless they're into them and they own the home since landlords typically dislike that. On and on. Now does that apply to me, goth ass that I am who owns a home and has an office painted black? No. But I also understand I am not the norm and would not be opposed to correcting the AI of these assumptions. And, even further, since both Bing and Google operate amongst both tech conglomerate monoliths, they could start to know me personally. Like that whenever I search for new restaurants I look for the traffic indicators because I don't like crowded places, so when I ask about where to eat, it might check for local eateries I haven't been to before that aren't particularly busy today. Or that when I look for electronic home gadgets they need to be compatible with HomeKit, or I don't buy them/am not interested. And REAL HomeKit, not "works with Siri" shit that requires an app and shortcuts. In my mind, this is what would differentiate AI from just chatbot search.

fragmede 3y ago

I don't know about historical search but as far as running code, the advanced data analysis will run python code, and you can ask it to iterate until it works. here we have an example where it output an answer, decided it wasn't good enough, and then came out with a second answer. https://chat.openai.com/share/0cec4f44-2245-45fd-b4c6-304e10c6b7f4 https://chat.openai.com/share/0cec4f44-2245-45fd-b4c6-304e10... Personally, I think we need new words to describe these things. Understanding, thinking, and reasoning don't really capture the meat of what it is and isn't doing. It's very good at a very specific slice of tasks, but it can also get fooled and be shown to be the stochastic parrot that lies beneath. But I spout incomprehensible gibberish when I get drunk, so, honestly, humans do that too.

ToucanLoucan 3y ago
I mean sure, but everything is not code. Most things aren't code. I'm not arguing this is useless for programmers, it seems most of the best examples of it are being used as kind of a second-set-of-eyes for developers. That sounds interesting and tbh I kinda wanna try some of that for my daily driving in development. But that's not what this is being sold as. This is being sold as a universal augment for all search engines. I have yet to see examples of it say, letting you know that a travel destination you're interested in is busy this time of year, and suggesting different dates. Or something like, noting that a car you want to buy has exceptionally bad safety ratings compared to similar models. That sort of thing. Contextual analysis that imparts a feeling, even if fleeting, that it actually knows what it's talking about. Like it seems to with code. > But I spout incomprehensible gibberish when I get drunk, so, honestly, humans do that too. Yeah and if you were habitually drunk at all hours of the day, I doubt many people would seek you out for advice?
- fragmede 3y ago
  Lol, fair. I'm referring to SolidGoldMagikarp* being a gibberish inducing word to ChatGPT, but maybe drunk is the wrong analogy and PTSD is a better one. Don't bring up <topic> around <person> because they'll go off on an crazed, uninterruptible rant about <topic>. I think I see your point. If I tell it that I hate rain and want to visit, say, Boracay in August, it'll tell me that it's in the middle of their rainy season, but what you're looking for is a system that has an idea of who you are, and can give that advice without having to tell it that you hate rain, for example. If I ask it about buying a 1953 Chevrolet Bel Air, it doesn't mention safety until I ask it if it's safe, at which point it does tell me that it doesn't have modern features like crumple zones or air bags. Or seat belts. That's interesting. I find it kind of annoying when Clippy pops up and offers to help, or when Google Home says "by the way... <new feature>", but I can see where you're coming from. It would have to know me and who I am, and offer personalized opinions to demonstrate a thorough understanding of a topic, instead of me having to explicitly ask about specific aspects. * https://www.vice.com/en/article/epzyva/ai-chatgpt-tokens-words-break-reddit https://www.vice.com/en/article/epzyva/ai-chatgpt-tokens-wor...
  - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
    I mean I don't expect it to know me personally, I'm just saying, if you're calling this AI search, Artificially Intelligent Search, it could make a lot of assumptions about anyone, even people it's never met before, that would make it feel a lot more like an AI search engine than just a search engine chatbot. And considering that ML operates basically entirely in a world of averages weighted against it's input data, this seems like exactly the sort of thing it would traffic best in. If you ask it, for example, what color paint to use in a given room, it could use a set of assumptions to help inform that decision. Most people use eggshell colors for a slight reflectivity that brightens a room. Most people use warmer colors for similar reasons. Most people avoid super dark colors unless they're into them and they own the home since landlords typically dislike that. On and on. Now does that apply to me, goth ass that I am who owns a home and has an office painted black? No. But I also understand I am not the norm and would not be opposed to correcting the AI of these assumptions. And, even further, since both Bing and Google operate amongst both tech conglomerate monoliths, they could start to know me personally. Like that whenever I search for new restaurants I look for the traffic indicators because I don't like crowded places, so when I ask about where to eat, it might check for local eateries I haven't been to before that aren't particularly busy today. Or that when I look for electronic home gadgets they need to be compatible with HomeKit, or I don't buy them/am not interested. And REAL HomeKit, not "works with Siri" shit that requires an app and shortcuts. In my mind, this is what would differentiate AI from just chatbot search.