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I wish there was some "here are basic building blocks to achieve XYZ" for real beginners who just want to hack something together. E.g. I would like a 48VDC-48V

I wish there was some "here are basic building blocks to achieve XYZ" for real beginners who just want to hack something together. E.g. I would like a 48VDC-48VDC battery-to-battery charger, but I have no idea how to get started. I'm sure this is a fairly simple design (I guess boost voltage and then do CC/CV).

alexose 3y ago
It would be cool if someone borrowed from the Factorio interface and let you paste in blueprints. I'm not an experienced enough PCB designer to know how terrible of an idea this is, but it sounds mildly feasible.
- RF_Savage 3y ago
  Like reuse-blocks tuat have a qualified design and layout on it?
- 15155 3y ago
  For low-speed and low-current stuff you can generally copy/place placement and routing of DC-DC converters. 2L->4L may require some retooling, but 4L+ is all the same.
- rcxdude 3y ago
  You can do this, though the interface tends to be clunky. It can he valuable but mostly for between different designs done in-house, no-one is trying to make easily reusable building blocks at this level (unlike footprints, where people are at least trying, but not generally succeeding)
Aurornis 3y ago
> I'm sure this is a fairly simple design Not simple at all. Switching regulators are sensitive to PCB layout, component selection, and parasitics of the PCB itself. You can’t really treat switching regulator schematics as cut-and-paste building blocks like this because the layout requires an understanding of how the circuit works, where the switching nodes are, and how to organize everything to keep parasitics low. If you take a random 48V switching regulator schematic and lay it out without understanding these details, you’re likely to blow the switch up from ringing or at least have terrible EMI radiation. The basic building blocks for beginners would be more like low-speed logic circuits and simple microcontrollers circuits. Jumping into medium voltage switching regulators and battery charging (which can result in fires very easily if you’re not careful) is far from simple.
- AYBABTME 3y ago
  If the PCB layout matters, then that could be part of the building block? Like "if you need this bit, it will take X by Y footprint. here's various circuits that do $JOB within $PARAMS".
  - aaronmdjones 3y ago
    TI's WEBENCH interface is like this. You tell it what type of converter you need (DC/DC or AC/DC), the desired characteristics (input voltage range, output voltage, output current, EMI filtering, isolated output, ambient temperature, etc), tell it what you want to optimise for (efficiency, cost, footprint area), and it will give you everything it can that fulfills those criteria (including schematics and bill of materials), allowing you to then sort the results by e.g. consumed board area, component count, features (enable inputs, automotive qualifications, ...). What it can't do is tell you how to lay out the board to get the result you want. The switching IC datasheets typically have layout examples, and these are sometimes complete nonsense. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYUYOXmo9UU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYUYOXmo9UU
    - 15155 3y ago
      What? WEBENCH absolutely recommends a layout and provides photos (these photos are regenerated when alternate passives, etc. are selected as well), as do most of the datasheets for most TI DC-DC converter parts. As mentioned - most manufacturers have recommended layouts and written layout recommendations: keep your loop small, route things this way, put a via here. If they don't, learn from the recommendations from TI's excellent documentation. This isn't that hard.
- Gracana 3y ago
  It's definitely not simple, but I think it's approachable, even for a beginner, but you've got to put in the work. Find parts that you think might work, then dig into their datasheets and read the related application notes. Look at the eval boards. When you find something you don't understand, look it up. Manufacturers want you to use their parts, and often they will provide everything you need to know to be successful. Look at Texas Instruments and Linear Technologies / Analog Devices for excellent documentation.

alexose 3y ago

It would be cool if someone borrowed from the Factorio interface and let you paste in blueprints. I'm not an experienced enough PCB designer to know how terrible of an idea this is, but it sounds mildly feasible.

RF_Savage 3y ago
Like reuse-blocks tuat have a qualified design and layout on it?
15155 3y ago
For low-speed and low-current stuff you can generally copy/place placement and routing of DC-DC converters. 2L->4L may require some retooling, but 4L+ is all the same.
rcxdude 3y ago
You can do this, though the interface tends to be clunky. It can he valuable but mostly for between different designs done in-house, no-one is trying to make easily reusable building blocks at this level (unlike footprints, where people are at least trying, but not generally succeeding)

Aurornis 3y ago

> I'm sure this is a fairly simple design Not simple at all. Switching regulators are sensitive to PCB layout, component selection, and parasitics of the PCB itself. You can’t really treat switching regulator schematics as cut-and-paste building blocks like this because the layout requires an understanding of how the circuit works, where the switching nodes are, and how to organize everything to keep parasitics low. If you take a random 48V switching regulator schematic and lay it out without understanding these details, you’re likely to blow the switch up from ringing or at least have terrible EMI radiation. The basic building blocks for beginners would be more like low-speed logic circuits and simple microcontrollers circuits. Jumping into medium voltage switching regulators and battery charging (which can result in fires very easily if you’re not careful) is far from simple.

AYBABTME 3y ago
If the PCB layout matters, then that could be part of the building block? Like "if you need this bit, it will take X by Y footprint. here's various circuits that do $JOB within $PARAMS".
- aaronmdjones 3y ago
  TI's WEBENCH interface is like this. You tell it what type of converter you need (DC/DC or AC/DC), the desired characteristics (input voltage range, output voltage, output current, EMI filtering, isolated output, ambient temperature, etc), tell it what you want to optimise for (efficiency, cost, footprint area), and it will give you everything it can that fulfills those criteria (including schematics and bill of materials), allowing you to then sort the results by e.g. consumed board area, component count, features (enable inputs, automotive qualifications, ...). What it can't do is tell you how to lay out the board to get the result you want. The switching IC datasheets typically have layout examples, and these are sometimes complete nonsense. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYUYOXmo9UU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYUYOXmo9UU
  - 15155 3y ago
    What? WEBENCH absolutely recommends a layout and provides photos (these photos are regenerated when alternate passives, etc. are selected as well), as do most of the datasheets for most TI DC-DC converter parts. As mentioned - most manufacturers have recommended layouts and written layout recommendations: keep your loop small, route things this way, put a via here. If they don't, learn from the recommendations from TI's excellent documentation. This isn't that hard.
Gracana 3y ago
It's definitely not simple, but I think it's approachable, even for a beginner, but you've got to put in the work. Find parts that you think might work, then dig into their datasheets and read the related application notes. Look at the eval boards. When you find something you don't understand, look it up. Manufacturers want you to use their parts, and often they will provide everything you need to know to be successful. Look at Texas Instruments and Linear Technologies / Analog Devices for excellent documentation.