5 ms·

Is there a list of organizations/platforms, like lichess.org that have/will never sell out?

dylan604 3y ago
how can you have a list of something like "will never"? a list of people claiming "will never" but never is a really really long time, and nobody can predict the future.
tmountain 3y ago
How could someone predict that? What litmus test could possible evaluate organized groups of humans resistance to greed?
- 7373737373 3y ago
  Lichess, legally, is now a charitable organization https://lichess.org/terms-of-service https://lichess.org/terms-of-service
  - derstander 3y ago
    > Lichess, legally, is now a charitable organization I’m not saying Lichess will do something like this, but have you heard the saga of the Environmental Research Institute of Michigan (ERIM)? It grew out of the University of Michigan — as a non-profit. Its president and board spun off a for-profit subsidiary owning the majority of its work, people, and assets and leaving a small fraction for the non-profit. Then, the for-profit entity was bought by a succession of other entities: Veridian, General Dynamics, and now MacDonald, Dettwiler and Associates. I only learned of this while working with a graybeard from the original ERIM during their General Dynamics days — he was still sore about it. So never doubt a president/ceo and board if they’re really determined in going for-profit! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_Research_Institute_of_Michigan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_Research_Insti...
    - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
      > working with a graybeard This language is offensive (to me [0]) and sexist. Feel free to use it if it really floats your boat, but you could get the same effect without the implicit sexism just using "oldster". You could also say "older colleague", or even just "person". [0] and I don't even have a beard
      - jprd 3y ago
        Thank you for sharing your feelings on this one, I hadn't heard of "graybeard" categorized that way by anyone before, though I can see your point-of-view and respect it. That being said, if the person was an actual human being, and subsequently had a graybeard (as I do!) - would that still be offensive? I don't intend to be combative, simply trying to learn!
        PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
        If you really feel that they color and presence of their facial hair was the best way to describe whatever it was that felt relevant to mentioning them, I can't really call that offensive. But the term "graybeard" is known in these circles as a reference to an older, always male, programmer. What actually matters is that they've been around the block enough times to understand (for example) that Rust probably will not solve every programming issue known to current programmers. Their gender and facial hair status is not really relevant. "Corner office grump" would be another term that I'd find entirely acceptable: non-gendered, unconcerned with physical appearance, but encapsulating much the same sort of personality that "graybeard" is attempting to evoke.
      - masfuerte 3y ago
        Old women grow beards too, though it is very unfashionable at the moment. British comedian Liza Tarbuck did an entertaining and thought provoking piece on the subject a few years ago but I was disappointed to learn that the beard she sported was stuck on rather than home grown.
      - derstander 3y ago
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > How could someone predict that? Sell the service to users and re-launch as a co-operative.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    That wouldn't be a guarantee, though. I've seen businesses do that and years later go down the bad road anyway.
rectang 3y ago
I'd cite the Apache Software Foundation. * Unlike many other tech foundations, it's a 501(c)(3) charity, which dramatically limits the ability of industry titans to buy influence — since donations are tax deductible and thus cannot be used to unduly advantage any commercial entity. * The Board of Directors is elected by the "Membership", which is primarily comprised of individuals who have contributed the most towards ASF projects. It's a sort of co-op structure which ensures that the org stays aligned to the interests of certain stakeholders. (FWIW I used to be very involved at the ASF but have not been active for several years.) I've often wondered whether an analogous charitable organization owned by musicians could slot into music distribution, in the space of DistroKid / TuneCore / CDBaby — handling royalties, QC'ing releases, and bargaining with audience-facing distributors like Spotify, Amazon, Apple, etc.
- bombcar 3y ago
  It can work and there are some organizations run that way. But just because something is a charity with a Board of Directors doesn't mean it can't be looted in various ways. It's happened before and will happen again.
Mistletoe 3y ago
It’s a very short list. Patagonia is on it. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/14/climate/patagonia-climate-philanthropy-chouinard.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/14/climate/patagonia-climate... https://hbr.org/2022/10/what-happens-when-a-company-like-patagonia-becomes-a-nonprofit https://hbr.org/2022/10/what-happens-when-a-company-like-pat...
Nemo_bis 3y ago
Check the International Cooperative Alliance. There's a list of national federations and you can find coops from there. https://www.ica.coop/en https://www.ica.coop/en

how can you have a list of something like "will never"? a list of people claiming "will never" but never is a really really long time, and nobody can predict the future.

tmountain 3y ago

How could someone predict that? What litmus test could possible evaluate organized groups of humans resistance to greed?

7373737373 3y ago
Lichess, legally, is now a charitable organization https://lichess.org/terms-of-service https://lichess.org/terms-of-service
- derstander 3y ago
  > Lichess, legally, is now a charitable organization I’m not saying Lichess will do something like this, but have you heard the saga of the Environmental Research Institute of Michigan (ERIM)? It grew out of the University of Michigan — as a non-profit. Its president and board spun off a for-profit subsidiary owning the majority of its work, people, and assets and leaving a small fraction for the non-profit. Then, the for-profit entity was bought by a succession of other entities: Veridian, General Dynamics, and now MacDonald, Dettwiler and Associates. I only learned of this while working with a graybeard from the original ERIM during their General Dynamics days — he was still sore about it. So never doubt a president/ceo and board if they’re really determined in going for-profit! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_Research_Institute_of_Michigan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_Research_Insti...
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    > working with a graybeard This language is offensive (to me [0]) and sexist. Feel free to use it if it really floats your boat, but you could get the same effect without the implicit sexism just using "oldster". You could also say "older colleague", or even just "person". [0] and I don't even have a beard
    - jprd 3y ago
      Thank you for sharing your feelings on this one, I hadn't heard of "graybeard" categorized that way by anyone before, though I can see your point-of-view and respect it. That being said, if the person was an actual human being, and subsequently had a graybeard (as I do!) - would that still be offensive? I don't intend to be combative, simply trying to learn!
      - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
        If you really feel that they color and presence of their facial hair was the best way to describe whatever it was that felt relevant to mentioning them, I can't really call that offensive. But the term "graybeard" is known in these circles as a reference to an older, always male, programmer. What actually matters is that they've been around the block enough times to understand (for example) that Rust probably will not solve every programming issue known to current programmers. Their gender and facial hair status is not really relevant. "Corner office grump" would be another term that I'd find entirely acceptable: non-gendered, unconcerned with physical appearance, but encapsulating much the same sort of personality that "graybeard" is attempting to evoke.
    - masfuerte 3y ago
      Old women grow beards too, though it is very unfashionable at the moment. British comedian Liza Tarbuck did an entertaining and thought provoking piece on the subject a few years ago but I was disappointed to learn that the beard she sported was stuck on rather than home grown.
    - derstander 3y ago
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> How could someone predict that? Sell the service to users and re-launch as a co-operative.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  That wouldn't be a guarantee, though. I've seen businesses do that and years later go down the bad road anyway.

rectang 3y ago

I'd cite the Apache Software Foundation. * Unlike many other tech foundations, it's a 501(c)(3) charity, which dramatically limits the ability of industry titans to buy influence — since donations are tax deductible and thus cannot be used to unduly advantage any commercial entity. * The Board of Directors is elected by the "Membership", which is primarily comprised of individuals who have contributed the most towards ASF projects. It's a sort of co-op structure which ensures that the org stays aligned to the interests of certain stakeholders. (FWIW I used to be very involved at the ASF but have not been active for several years.) I've often wondered whether an analogous charitable organization owned by musicians could slot into music distribution, in the space of DistroKid / TuneCore / CDBaby — handling royalties, QC'ing releases, and bargaining with audience-facing distributors like Spotify, Amazon, Apple, etc.

bombcar 3y ago
It can work and there are some organizations run that way. But just because something is a charity with a Board of Directors doesn't mean it can't be looted in various ways. It's happened before and will happen again.

Mistletoe 3y ago

It’s a very short list. Patagonia is on it. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/14/climate/patagonia-climate-philanthropy-chouinard.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/14/climate/patagonia-climate... https://hbr.org/2022/10/what-happens-when-a-company-like-patagonia-becomes-a-nonprofit https://hbr.org/2022/10/what-happens-when-a-company-like-pat...

Nemo_bis 3y ago

Check the International Cooperative Alliance. There's a list of national federations and you can find coops from there. https://www.ica.coop/en https://www.ica.coop/en