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It’s just an agreement that has been pretty much forced on anyone that has a basic school education I can choose to disagree and doesn’t matter what you do I c

by nico 3y ago

It’s just an agreement that has been pretty much forced on anyone that has a basic school education I can choose to disagree and doesn’t matter what you do I can assign a different meaning to it No ideas are objective truth, and objective truth is something that can’t even be tested

fluoridation 3y ago
>I can assign a different meaning to it I don't even understand what that means. Ideas don't have meaning, they are meaning. What does it mean to assign a different meaning to the idea represented as "1+1=2"? >No ideas are objective truth No. Mathematical truths are objectively true. Even if addition itself is false in the universe, in the sense that in some cases you can put one real thing next to another and get other than two real things next to each other as a result, that 1+1=2 is true objectively. It would just mean that the universe is based on an axiomatic system that is more lax than our own.
- nico 3y ago
  You can believe whatever you want, assign any meaning you want I can say that 1+1=2 means it’s lunchtime on the moon I can also say that 1+1=11 I can’t force you (nor anyone else), to accept or agree with those meanings, but I can definitely assign any meaning I want No ideas, nor meaning, nor formulas, nor math are objective truth Just the fact that I can disagree with you right now means there isn’t an objective truth. If there was, then we wouldn’t even be able to disagree And the universe is not based on any axiomatic anything, maybe your models of the universe are, but those models are just a subjective approximation to whatever the reality of the universe is, which we all perceive and experience differently in a subjective manner
  - fluoridation 3y ago
    >I can say that 1+1=2 means it’s lunchtime on the moon You're still confusing the symbols with the meaning. >Just the fact that I can disagree with you right now means there isn’t an objective truth. If there was, then we wouldn’t even be able to disagree Please explain how objective truth existing would prevent people from disagreeing with each other. >And the universe is not based on any axiomatic anything, maybe your models of the universe are, but those models are just a subjective approximation to whatever the reality of the universe is Yes, that's more or less what I said. However, those models contain objectively true statements with regards to themselves. According to the theory of relativity no object can go faster than light, correct? A sandwich is an object, correct? Then it's objectively true that according to the theory of relativity a sandwich can't go faster than light. It doesn't matter whether sandwiches actually are capable of going faster than light, that the theory of relativity states (indirectly) that sandwiches can't go faster than light is an objective truth.
  - Novosell 3y ago
    If I write "water is wet", I'm referring to the matter known as water, not the symbols that make up the English word "water". Likewise, in this conversation, 1+1=2 is saying that if you take the idea represented by the symbol 1 and then add it to itself, the result is the idea represented by the symbol 2. The ideas behind words and the words themselves are not equivalent.
fijiaarone 3y ago
Sounds like a pretty piss poor attempt at an absolute by someone who aspires to the label “sophomoric” in the most asinine and juvenile sense.
vacuity 3y ago
"1 + 1 = 2" has a commonly understood meaning that implies a system of axioms and theorems and whatnot so as to be an objectively true statement in that context. You're not being asked to interpret what someone means by "1 + 1 = 2"; you're being asked to examine that string of characters in the context of a specific system that you clearly understand.

by nico 3y ago

fluoridation 3y ago

>I can assign a different meaning to it I don't even understand what that means. Ideas don't have meaning, they are meaning. What does it mean to assign a different meaning to the idea represented as "1+1=2"? >No ideas are objective truth No. Mathematical truths are objectively true. Even if addition itself is false in the universe, in the sense that in some cases you can put one real thing next to another and get other than two real things next to each other as a result, that 1+1=2 is true objectively. It would just mean that the universe is based on an axiomatic system that is more lax than our own.

nico 3y ago
You can believe whatever you want, assign any meaning you want I can say that 1+1=2 means it’s lunchtime on the moon I can also say that 1+1=11 I can’t force you (nor anyone else), to accept or agree with those meanings, but I can definitely assign any meaning I want No ideas, nor meaning, nor formulas, nor math are objective truth Just the fact that I can disagree with you right now means there isn’t an objective truth. If there was, then we wouldn’t even be able to disagree And the universe is not based on any axiomatic anything, maybe your models of the universe are, but those models are just a subjective approximation to whatever the reality of the universe is, which we all perceive and experience differently in a subjective manner
- fluoridation 3y ago
  >I can say that 1+1=2 means it’s lunchtime on the moon You're still confusing the symbols with the meaning. >Just the fact that I can disagree with you right now means there isn’t an objective truth. If there was, then we wouldn’t even be able to disagree Please explain how objective truth existing would prevent people from disagreeing with each other. >And the universe is not based on any axiomatic anything, maybe your models of the universe are, but those models are just a subjective approximation to whatever the reality of the universe is Yes, that's more or less what I said. However, those models contain objectively true statements with regards to themselves. According to the theory of relativity no object can go faster than light, correct? A sandwich is an object, correct? Then it's objectively true that according to the theory of relativity a sandwich can't go faster than light. It doesn't matter whether sandwiches actually are capable of going faster than light, that the theory of relativity states (indirectly) that sandwiches can't go faster than light is an objective truth.
- Novosell 3y ago
  If I write "water is wet", I'm referring to the matter known as water, not the symbols that make up the English word "water". Likewise, in this conversation, 1+1=2 is saying that if you take the idea represented by the symbol 1 and then add it to itself, the result is the idea represented by the symbol 2. The ideas behind words and the words themselves are not equivalent.

fijiaarone 3y ago

Sounds like a pretty piss poor attempt at an absolute by someone who aspires to the label “sophomoric” in the most asinine and juvenile sense.

vacuity 3y ago

"1 + 1 = 2" has a commonly understood meaning that implies a system of axioms and theorems and whatnot so as to be an objectively true statement in that context. You're not being asked to interpret what someone means by "1 + 1 = 2"; you're being asked to examine that string of characters in the context of a specific system that you clearly understand.