4 ms·

Japan’s silent movie culture is still going

125 points by lermontov 3y ago

gascoigne 3y ago
This was a fascinating read. Do the benshis change the story? Or interpret it differently than intended? It sounds so foreign to me that I'd love to experience it.
- DrPhish 3y ago
  The movie Katsuben or “Talking the Movies” is a very funny and overall entertaining dramatized love-letter to Benshi era culture https://m.imdb.com/title/tt11147106/ https://m.imdb.com/title/tt11147106/
hotnfresh 3y ago
> The surprising thing is not that in the silent era Japanese audiences opted to watch films with live human mediation. What is strange is that no other countries — apart from Korea, Taiwan and Thailand, all then under Japanese influence — adopted such an excellent and fun idea. Since these performances are noted as including ad-lib commentary and anachronistic (to the film) references, seems like MST3K is pretty close, though they comment over talkies. [edit] I’ve also been to a couple showings with people who were on the production calling out jokes and commentary over it, and have been at film festivals where live-riffs or commentary were done by some set of podcasters or another. I’m in a trash-tier city so these are rare, but I bet they can be found in major US cities on a pretty regular basis, if you’re not picky about the sort of movie you’ll be seeing.
- endominus 3y ago
  Not to mention the Rocky Horror Picture Show as a singular example of an audience taking part in a showing (a friend of mine showed it to me and other friends at a party, beginning the night by apologizing that he alone would not be able to do all of the normal ad-lib that a full theater would perform).
- stock_toaster 3y ago
  I wonder if the prior existence of Rakugo made it more culturally normative.
  - eru 3y ago
    Maybe, but the west has similar traditions. Eg a Judy and Punch show perhaps?
anjel 3y ago
For those further interested, Hamilton College has collated a digital archive of historical and modern (including VR) benshi content https://benshi.hamiltonlits.org/main/ https://benshi.hamiltonlits.org/main/
AlbertCory 3y ago
I'd actually never heard of benshi. The General is a silent film that you can show to any modern audience, and they'll love it. I actually did this once in a movie Meetup.
- hotnfresh 3y ago
  Silent comedies hold up exceptionally well. I’ve enjoyed nearly everything of Keaton’s and Chaplin’s I’ve watched, which is quite a bit. Haven’t dug into Lloyd yet, but I’m expecting that to go well, too. Dramas are more hit-or-miss and benefit more from some effort at acclimatization, I think—that is, I think the average viewer is likely to bounce off even the very-good ones without putting some time & work into getting used to the medium.
- jonah 3y ago
  Our local theater - which held the West-coast premier of Gone with the Wind - renovated their organ and showed The General with live accompaniment as the first event. Was fantastic.
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    Well, it's not the Stanford, but thanks for making me check this! http://rick.stanford.edu/stanford_theatre.html http://rick.stanford.edu/stanford_theatre.html they were closed for a LONG time.
    - jonah 3y ago
      The Arlington Theater: https://www.arlingtontheatresb.com https://www.arlingtontheatresb.com https://www.arlingtontheatresb.com/gallery?pgid=kxxp519a-a6fbe548-1b75-46c0-ba12-928a81a6f4a0 https://www.arlingtontheatresb.com/gallery?pgid=kxxp519a-a6f...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
xrd 3y ago
The author seems like an interesting personality. He's a (self described, but...) finance guru. Great writing. I'm sad I didn't go see a benshi film when I was in Tokyo a few months back. I wonder if there is a connection to the rakugo tradition? Seems like it could be an offshoot.
e0 3y ago
Huh! Coincidentally YouTube suggested this older video about _benshi_ to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWc__spYakA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWc__spYakA
mrob 3y ago
>no other countries — apart from Korea, Taiwan and Thailand, all then under Japanese influence — adopted such an excellent and fun idea. Some movie theaters in Uganda also have live commentary and translation, provided by "video jokers". You can hear such commentary by VJ Emmie in the famous Ugandan action movie "Who Killed Captain Alex?", which you can watch on the Official Wakaliwood Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEoGrbKAyKE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEoGrbKAyKE Despite the very low budget, the movie is surprisingly entertaining, and the commentary makes it even better.
- syntaxing 3y ago
  Is this the movie with the awesome helicopter scene?
  - twic 3y ago
    Yes, where the Tiger Mafia steal a police helicopter, and blow up a building, with incredible CGI.
- soulofmischief 3y ago
  The commentary is the best part. Everybody in Uganda knows Kung-Fu!
- tetris11 3y ago
  > Squibs used to simulate gunshot wounds were made from condoms filled with red food coloring and tied to fishing lines before being taped to the actors' chests; Nabwana previously used cow blood, but was forced to discontinue it after one of his actors developed brucellosis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_Captain_Alex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_Captain_Alex On the more lighter side of things: > Throughout the film, a panpipes cover of the Seal song "Kiss from a Rose", as well as a piano cover of the ABBA song "Mamma Mia", can be heard.
AnotherGoodName 3y ago
One thing that's really nice about silent movies/tv is that it's truely language agnostic. You'd be surprised just how much of the world knows "Mr Bean" for example. It's syndicated just about everywhere in the world and crosses language and culture barriers. I'm really surprised silent movies/tv isn't more common. Many diverse nations have a need for language agnostic entertainment and it's trivial to syndicate such media throughout the world. Papua New Guinea for example struggles to accomodate all of it's languages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Papua_New_Guinea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Papua_New_Guinea . Silent media is helpful there to provide a common point of connection across the nation (they used Mr Bean as a mascott for awareness during covid).
- eru 3y ago
  Many cartoons for kids don't use language much. Eg have a look at Tom and Jerry. But the same applies to much modern fare, too.
  - wodenokoto 3y ago
    Weren't 1940s animation shorts aimed at adult cinema goers? I don't think I can name a single cartoon in the last 30 years that is aimed at children and mostly follow a silent formula.
    - eru 3y ago
      Perhaps that's because you haven't been watching much children's entertainment in the last 30 years? See eg https://www.netflix.com/sg/title/81154166 https://www.netflix.com/sg/title/81154166 > Weren't 1940s animation shorts aimed at adult cinema goers? Tom and Jerry were invented in the 1940s, but eg the 1960s episodes used the same format. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_and_Jerry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_and_Jerry for a timeline. See https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MimeAndMusicOnlyCartoon https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MimeAndMusicOnly... for many more examples, though far from exhaustive. As an 'intermediate example': Pucca has dialogue, but also very strong visual story-telling that means you can understand what's going on without the dialogue. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Animation/Pucca https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Animation/Pucca says: > Pucca became popular worldwide because it relies on visual and gag humor rather than language, much like The Pink Panther, the Road Runner and other pantomime cartoons. Though the series has since picked up dialog, translation has worked well enough and the series remains mostly silent. Both show leads, Garu and Pucca, are Heroic Mimes, though they do laugh, sigh and make other sounds.
langsoul-com 3y ago
Anyone know good places in Tokyo that show Benshi movies? Sounds interesting enough to try.
theNJR 3y ago
I’m reading Kurosawa’s autobiography and, somewhat related to this post, I found it interesting that his brother was a regionally famous narrator for silent films. When talkies exploded on the scene he committed suicide because of it.
condiment 3y ago
Yesterday was “National silent film day” in the US, a holiday only celebrated by indie movie theaters. If you haven’t been to a silent film, they’re a worthwhile experience. Many original scores are lost, so typically a pianist (and silent film enthusiast) will score the film and perform live in the theater during the screening. Most big cities have a 1-2 day annual silent film festival, and several small events throughout the year. There are even new silent films being produced, mostly as university projects.
IOT_Apprentice 3y ago
Isn’t this an extension of Kabuki culture to film? It would make sense in that context.

125 points by lermontov 3y ago

This was a fascinating read. Do the benshis change the story? Or interpret it differently than intended? It sounds so foreign to me that I'd love to experience it.

DrPhish 3y ago
The movie Katsuben or “Talking the Movies” is a very funny and overall entertaining dramatized love-letter to Benshi era culture https://m.imdb.com/title/tt11147106/ https://m.imdb.com/title/tt11147106/

hotnfresh 3y ago

> The surprising thing is not that in the silent era Japanese audiences opted to watch films with live human mediation. What is strange is that no other countries — apart from Korea, Taiwan and Thailand, all then under Japanese influence — adopted such an excellent and fun idea. Since these performances are noted as including ad-lib commentary and anachronistic (to the film) references, seems like MST3K is pretty close, though they comment over talkies. [edit] I’ve also been to a couple showings with people who were on the production calling out jokes and commentary over it, and have been at film festivals where live-riffs or commentary were done by some set of podcasters or another. I’m in a trash-tier city so these are rare, but I bet they can be found in major US cities on a pretty regular basis, if you’re not picky about the sort of movie you’ll be seeing.

endominus 3y ago
Not to mention the Rocky Horror Picture Show as a singular example of an audience taking part in a showing (a friend of mine showed it to me and other friends at a party, beginning the night by apologizing that he alone would not be able to do all of the normal ad-lib that a full theater would perform).
stock_toaster 3y ago
I wonder if the prior existence of Rakugo made it more culturally normative.
- eru 3y ago
  Maybe, but the west has similar traditions. Eg a Judy and Punch show perhaps?

anjel 3y ago

For those further interested, Hamilton College has collated a digital archive of historical and modern (including VR) benshi content https://benshi.hamiltonlits.org/main/ https://benshi.hamiltonlits.org/main/

AlbertCory 3y ago

I'd actually never heard of benshi. The General is a silent film that you can show to any modern audience, and they'll love it. I actually did this once in a movie Meetup.

hotnfresh 3y ago
Silent comedies hold up exceptionally well. I’ve enjoyed nearly everything of Keaton’s and Chaplin’s I’ve watched, which is quite a bit. Haven’t dug into Lloyd yet, but I’m expecting that to go well, too. Dramas are more hit-or-miss and benefit more from some effort at acclimatization, I think—that is, I think the average viewer is likely to bounce off even the very-good ones without putting some time & work into getting used to the medium.
jonah 3y ago
Our local theater - which held the West-coast premier of Gone with the Wind - renovated their organ and showed The General with live accompaniment as the first event. Was fantastic.
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  Well, it's not the Stanford, but thanks for making me check this! http://rick.stanford.edu/stanford_theatre.html http://rick.stanford.edu/stanford_theatre.html they were closed for a LONG time.
  - jonah 3y ago
    The Arlington Theater: https://www.arlingtontheatresb.com https://www.arlingtontheatresb.com https://www.arlingtontheatresb.com/gallery?pgid=kxxp519a-a6fbe548-1b75-46c0-ba12-928a81a6f4a0 https://www.arlingtontheatresb.com/gallery?pgid=kxxp519a-a6f...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

xrd 3y ago

The author seems like an interesting personality. He's a (self described, but...) finance guru. Great writing. I'm sad I didn't go see a benshi film when I was in Tokyo a few months back. I wonder if there is a connection to the rakugo tradition? Seems like it could be an offshoot.

e0 3y ago

Huh! Coincidentally YouTube suggested this older video about _benshi_ to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWc__spYakA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWc__spYakA

mrob 3y ago

>no other countries — apart from Korea, Taiwan and Thailand, all then under Japanese influence — adopted such an excellent and fun idea. Some movie theaters in Uganda also have live commentary and translation, provided by "video jokers". You can hear such commentary by VJ Emmie in the famous Ugandan action movie "Who Killed Captain Alex?", which you can watch on the Official Wakaliwood Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEoGrbKAyKE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEoGrbKAyKE Despite the very low budget, the movie is surprisingly entertaining, and the commentary makes it even better.

syntaxing 3y ago
Is this the movie with the awesome helicopter scene?
- twic 3y ago
  Yes, where the Tiger Mafia steal a police helicopter, and blow up a building, with incredible CGI.
soulofmischief 3y ago
The commentary is the best part. Everybody in Uganda knows Kung-Fu!
tetris11 3y ago
> Squibs used to simulate gunshot wounds were made from condoms filled with red food coloring and tied to fishing lines before being taped to the actors' chests; Nabwana previously used cow blood, but was forced to discontinue it after one of his actors developed brucellosis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_Captain_Alex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_Captain_Alex On the more lighter side of things: > Throughout the film, a panpipes cover of the Seal song "Kiss from a Rose", as well as a piano cover of the ABBA song "Mamma Mia", can be heard.

AnotherGoodName 3y ago

One thing that's really nice about silent movies/tv is that it's truely language agnostic. You'd be surprised just how much of the world knows "Mr Bean" for example. It's syndicated just about everywhere in the world and crosses language and culture barriers. I'm really surprised silent movies/tv isn't more common. Many diverse nations have a need for language agnostic entertainment and it's trivial to syndicate such media throughout the world. Papua New Guinea for example struggles to accomodate all of it's languages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Papua_New_Guinea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Papua_New_Guinea . Silent media is helpful there to provide a common point of connection across the nation (they used Mr Bean as a mascott for awareness during covid).

eru 3y ago
Many cartoons for kids don't use language much. Eg have a look at Tom and Jerry. But the same applies to much modern fare, too.
- wodenokoto 3y ago
  Weren't 1940s animation shorts aimed at adult cinema goers? I don't think I can name a single cartoon in the last 30 years that is aimed at children and mostly follow a silent formula.
  - eru 3y ago
    Perhaps that's because you haven't been watching much children's entertainment in the last 30 years? See eg https://www.netflix.com/sg/title/81154166 https://www.netflix.com/sg/title/81154166 > Weren't 1940s animation shorts aimed at adult cinema goers? Tom and Jerry were invented in the 1940s, but eg the 1960s episodes used the same format. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_and_Jerry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_and_Jerry for a timeline. See https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MimeAndMusicOnlyCartoon https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MimeAndMusicOnly... for many more examples, though far from exhaustive. As an 'intermediate example': Pucca has dialogue, but also very strong visual story-telling that means you can understand what's going on without the dialogue. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Animation/Pucca https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Animation/Pucca says: > Pucca became popular worldwide because it relies on visual and gag humor rather than language, much like The Pink Panther, the Road Runner and other pantomime cartoons. Though the series has since picked up dialog, translation has worked well enough and the series remains mostly silent. Both show leads, Garu and Pucca, are Heroic Mimes, though they do laugh, sigh and make other sounds.

langsoul-com 3y ago

Anyone know good places in Tokyo that show Benshi movies? Sounds interesting enough to try.

theNJR 3y ago

I’m reading Kurosawa’s autobiography and, somewhat related to this post, I found it interesting that his brother was a regionally famous narrator for silent films. When talkies exploded on the scene he committed suicide because of it.

condiment 3y ago

Yesterday was “National silent film day” in the US, a holiday only celebrated by indie movie theaters. If you haven’t been to a silent film, they’re a worthwhile experience. Many original scores are lost, so typically a pianist (and silent film enthusiast) will score the film and perform live in the theater during the screening. Most big cities have a 1-2 day annual silent film festival, and several small events throughout the year. There are even new silent films being produced, mostly as university projects.

IOT_Apprentice 3y ago

Isn’t this an extension of Kabuki culture to film? It would make sense in that context.