4 ms·

Sadly no matter how green Switzerland becomes or is it won't help. It is too small to make any dent it global greenhouse gasses even if it wasn't too late alrea

Sadly no matter how green Switzerland becomes or is it won't help. It is too small to make any dent it global greenhouse gasses even if it wasn't too late already.

throw_pm23 3y ago
Also, before the Swiss start congratulating themselves too much, it is not becoming green in any meaningful sense of the word, and its ecological footprint is waaaay larger than justified by its size and than most other parts of the world.
FirmwareBurner 3y ago
> It is too small to make any dent it global greenhouse gasses even if it wasn't too late already. It's not like wealthy "green" western countries don't have their share of blame when it comes to global warming and environmental damage, they just don't do it in their own back yard, and instead mostly export it to poor/developing countries where most of the dirty manufacturing of the goods they buy happens and where much of the dirty hydrocarbures get burned. It's already been documented through studies, that people in wealthy countries actually have bigger environmental footprint compared to people in poor countries (they travel, fly and drive a lot more, buy more stuff online and throw good stuff away more often, use a lot more AC and other energy hungry amenities like heated swimming pools, buy cars more often, etc.). Also, Switzerland is the world's leading coal trading hub. So while they don't use it very much themselves, similar to green Norway making bank on selling its oil to others, they defiantly build their wealth off profiteering from environmental destruction, so Switzerland is not innocent here.
- huytersd 3y ago
  Switzerland is probably the best example of second hand exploitative wealth in the world. Shady middlemen for chocolate, minerals, diamonds, oil, coal, fucking Nestle etc. Kind of irrationally makes me hate that things are so hunky dory there.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    Of course. Since WW2 it's been the major safe heaven of the most vile, shady and criminal wealthy elite. Unironically it's also where the elite goes to have their frozen corpses preserved until they can be resurrected in the future.[1] [1] https://www.tomorrow.bio/ https://www.tomorrow.bio/
  - imjonse 3y ago
    I wonder if they could have referendums on keeping these shady middlemen and being a financial paradise or these are subject beyond popular debate.
    - huytersd 3y ago
      Even the financial paradise aspect is exploitative. Every country in the world has reporting and transparency requirements so billionaires can’t just silently stack wealth and skip paying taxes but we’re going to be the one place that says, fuck everyone, we have no morals or ethical concerns, put your money here. I don’t know the laws on the ground but you probably won’t be able to referendum away massive, global corporations.
renewiltord 3y ago
That's sort of true. It's why I stopped thinking about my carbon emissions. Even if I kill myself and bring myself to zero, the net carbon emissions per year will only move from 37.12 billion metric tonnes to about 37.12 billion metric tonnes. And if I 10x my emissions, net carbon emissions per year will still be 37.12 billion metric tonnes. It's been quite liberating, actually. I got rid of my motorcycle, got a Nissan Titan, and now I fly everywhere. Knowing that no matter how green I become doesn't matter and that if I 10x my emissions means that I'm free to act in whatever manner I choose!
- esarbe 3y ago
  While I don't have any intention of letting my carbon footprint balloon up, there's one point I thoroughly agree with you. This is not a problem that can be solved with individual responsibility. It just makes you feel guilty. This is a systemic, a societal problem. And until this is addressed by policy, law and international treaty, no manner of individual do-gooding will solve the issue.
  - abdullahkhalids 3y ago
    Systematic problems are solved by political action. Political consensus to change the status quo emerges from a some group of society taking individual responsibility, and then demanding/voting that society changes to their model. If no one ever takes the shitty public transit, how will politicians know that they should invest in better transit. Individuals pay the price of taking that shitty public transit and then demonstrate/campaign for better. If fast fashion is to be ended, you don't keep buying the latest outfits from The Gap every year. You individually pay high prices for the lasting products from niche stores. Then you use your demand as material to go campaign publicly to change norms and/or ask politicians to tax/regulate fast fashion items. Sure, there are some places where politicians can judge general sentiment and make laws ahead of public sentiment change, but in a lot of cases its the other way around.
  - landemva 3y ago
    Individuals can purchase items created locally, rather than exporting manufacturing pollution to developing nations. As Bud Light sales drop showed, consumer purchasing choices can make change.
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Sadly no matter how green Switzerland becomes or is it won't help. It is too small to make any dent it global greenhouse gasses even if it wasn't too late already.

throw_pm23 3y ago

Also, before the Swiss start congratulating themselves too much, it is not becoming green in any meaningful sense of the word, and its ecological footprint is waaaay larger than justified by its size and than most other parts of the world.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

> It is too small to make any dent it global greenhouse gasses even if it wasn't too late already. It's not like wealthy "green" western countries don't have their share of blame when it comes to global warming and environmental damage, they just don't do it in their own back yard, and instead mostly export it to poor/developing countries where most of the dirty manufacturing of the goods they buy happens and where much of the dirty hydrocarbures get burned. It's already been documented through studies, that people in wealthy countries actually have bigger environmental footprint compared to people in poor countries (they travel, fly and drive a lot more, buy more stuff online and throw good stuff away more often, use a lot more AC and other energy hungry amenities like heated swimming pools, buy cars more often, etc.). Also, Switzerland is the world's leading coal trading hub. So while they don't use it very much themselves, similar to green Norway making bank on selling its oil to others, they defiantly build their wealth off profiteering from environmental destruction, so Switzerland is not innocent here.

huytersd 3y ago
Switzerland is probably the best example of second hand exploitative wealth in the world. Shady middlemen for chocolate, minerals, diamonds, oil, coal, fucking Nestle etc. Kind of irrationally makes me hate that things are so hunky dory there.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Of course. Since WW2 it's been the major safe heaven of the most vile, shady and criminal wealthy elite. Unironically it's also where the elite goes to have their frozen corpses preserved until they can be resurrected in the future.[1] [1] https://www.tomorrow.bio/ https://www.tomorrow.bio/
- imjonse 3y ago
  I wonder if they could have referendums on keeping these shady middlemen and being a financial paradise or these are subject beyond popular debate.
  - huytersd 3y ago
    Even the financial paradise aspect is exploitative. Every country in the world has reporting and transparency requirements so billionaires can’t just silently stack wealth and skip paying taxes but we’re going to be the one place that says, fuck everyone, we have no morals or ethical concerns, put your money here. I don’t know the laws on the ground but you probably won’t be able to referendum away massive, global corporations.

renewiltord 3y ago

That's sort of true. It's why I stopped thinking about my carbon emissions. Even if I kill myself and bring myself to zero, the net carbon emissions per year will only move from 37.12 billion metric tonnes to about 37.12 billion metric tonnes. And if I 10x my emissions, net carbon emissions per year will still be 37.12 billion metric tonnes. It's been quite liberating, actually. I got rid of my motorcycle, got a Nissan Titan, and now I fly everywhere. Knowing that no matter how green I become doesn't matter and that if I 10x my emissions means that I'm free to act in whatever manner I choose!

esarbe 3y ago
While I don't have any intention of letting my carbon footprint balloon up, there's one point I thoroughly agree with you. This is not a problem that can be solved with individual responsibility. It just makes you feel guilty. This is a systemic, a societal problem. And until this is addressed by policy, law and international treaty, no manner of individual do-gooding will solve the issue.
- abdullahkhalids 3y ago
  Systematic problems are solved by political action. Political consensus to change the status quo emerges from a some group of society taking individual responsibility, and then demanding/voting that society changes to their model. If no one ever takes the shitty public transit, how will politicians know that they should invest in better transit. Individuals pay the price of taking that shitty public transit and then demonstrate/campaign for better. If fast fashion is to be ended, you don't keep buying the latest outfits from The Gap every year. You individually pay high prices for the lasting products from niche stores. Then you use your demand as material to go campaign publicly to change norms and/or ask politicians to tax/regulate fast fashion items. Sure, there are some places where politicians can judge general sentiment and make laws ahead of public sentiment change, but in a lot of cases its the other way around.
- landemva 3y ago
  Individuals can purchase items created locally, rather than exporting manufacturing pollution to developing nations. As Bud Light sales drop showed, consumer purchasing choices can make change.

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