6 ms·

Just a thought, if a black hole that close were discovered there would be another space race to get there. It just sounds so cool to the politicians (who've see

by kurthr 3y ago

Just a thought, if a black hole that close were discovered there would be another space race to get there. It just sounds so cool to the politicians (who've seen the movies) that any scientist would have no problem convincing them to loosen the purse strings.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
cgriswald 3y ago
For reference, if it exists, it’s closest approach to the sun is more than six times farther than Pluto’s furthest approach and it took New Horizons nearly a decade of travel time to reach Pluto. A probe would be a decades long project. Sending humans would be effectively impossible.
- pierat 3y ago
  > Sending humans would be effectively impossible. I can think of PLENTY of billionaires to send :)
  - eru 3y ago
    Why? I assume you object to billionaires because they use a disproportionate share of the world's resources? Spending even more resources on them doesn't seem like it would make that better?
- MaxikCZ 3y ago
  Given such a scientifically interesting object so close to us, I can't imagine any other reality than massive world-scale spending to not just "get there first", but first to perform other low-hanging publicity stuns (think first space walk, first moon landing). The fact you _can't_ even land there is a massive accessibility boost. The thought is so exciting. The understanding of physics would be destined to leapfrog, distinctively changing humanity, and nature. Can anyone imagine something concrete?
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    First man to die by black hole?
    - yellowapple 3y ago
      "First human to experience spaghettification firsthand" would be quite the honor, I suppose.
      - jncfhnb 3y ago
        Some say he’s still experiencing it…
  - dpe82 3y ago
    Related; it's instructive to learn that a significant motivation behind the Apollo program was its national defense implications: https://youtu.be/xZFnTBSRKcg?t=137 https://youtu.be/xZFnTBSRKcg?t=137
  - jncfhnb 3y ago
    The majority of people would say it was dumb and wasteful much like they did for the moon landing and they would be pretty clearly correct.
    - eru 3y ago
      The moon landings were widely popular at the time, weren't they? Even the Soviets didn't say they were dumb and wasteful. (I tend to be a bit milder, and just say that the moon landings should be thought of as spending on entertainment, not on science. Manned space flight in general is very cost-ineffective, if you care about scientific bang for your buck.)
      - jncfhnb 3y ago
        Nope! Majority of Americans thought the Apollo program was a waste of money if you look at polls. This changed after it was successful and now we have retconned our history to say that everybody thought it was a great idea from the start. I don’t think it’s hypocritical to say that the moon landing was worth it but gearing up to go to a distant black hole is not*
- kzrdude 3y ago
  Do we even have a guess where it is right now? The orbit is huge, so the search area is ginormous, even if we would know approximately where in its orbit it would currently be.
- skykooler 3y ago
  Sending humans would be difficult (technically we have the technology already [see Project Orion], it's just illegal), but it's certainly possible to get a probe out there far faster than New Horizons. Travel speed is mainly determined by the delta-v of the upper stage. New Horizons used a Star-48B solid rocket motor to get to its escape trajectory. However, if the probe were smaller, or the launch vehicle bigger, it could have multiple upper stages, significantly increasing the ultimate speed. It might also be feasible to use an ion engine stage with solar panels and a route that dips down below Venus' orbit to get even more speed without increasing the probe mass significantly. In other words, with a large enough budget, we could easily get a probe to those distances in under a decade with no new technology required.
  - seventytwo 3y ago
    “… with a large enough budget, we could easily…”
    - skykooler 3y ago
      If there were a new space race, budgets would probably increase.
      - aurareturn 3y ago
        It doesn't have to be political. Discovering a blackhole reachable by humans would be one of the most exciting discoveries possible. It might even unite nations to work together to get there as soon as possible.
    - aurareturn 3y ago
      If there's really a black hole there, I'd personally donate at least 10% of my year's salary to the program if it means we make it there within my lifetime. Studying it might allow us to finally unify GR and QM.
    - ada1981 3y ago
      Currently sums up my last romantic relationship…
zakki 3y ago
If there is a race to be the first to reach this “black hole” and the racers are careless, is it going to make “the black hole“ alive and getting bigger?
robofanatic 3y ago
If it is a black hole then won’t the nearest planets get sucked into it?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- dingosity 3y ago
  Only if the other planet's orbits take them near enough to the black hole to get sucked in. The main difference between a primordial black hole at about the Earth's mass and a planet at about the Earth's mass is the presumed density of dark matter around it. And I'm guessing there's more hawking radiation coming from the black hole than the planet. But small black holes with the same mass as the Earth have the same sucking power as the Earth since it's the mass that does the sucking.
- dreamcompiler 3y ago
  If our sun magically turned into a black hole of the same mass tomorrow, nothing would change on earth or in our solar system, except it would get very dark. Nothing would get "sucked in". We'd all freeze to death in a few days, but the earth would go right on orbiting as if nothing happened. If our moon turned into a black hole of its same mass tomorrow there would be even less of an effect. We'd notice we could no longer see the moon, but we'd still have tides just like before.
gofixurcode 3y ago
I think it’s hilarious that there could be a space race to get to a golf ball sized invisible object. I see the importance, but at the same time you must admit from a layman’s perspective it’s kinda comical.

by kurthr 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

cgriswald 3y ago

For reference, if it exists, it’s closest approach to the sun is more than six times farther than Pluto’s furthest approach and it took New Horizons nearly a decade of travel time to reach Pluto. A probe would be a decades long project. Sending humans would be effectively impossible.

pierat 3y ago
> Sending humans would be effectively impossible. I can think of PLENTY of billionaires to send :)
- eru 3y ago
  Why? I assume you object to billionaires because they use a disproportionate share of the world's resources? Spending even more resources on them doesn't seem like it would make that better?
MaxikCZ 3y ago
Given such a scientifically interesting object so close to us, I can't imagine any other reality than massive world-scale spending to not just "get there first", but first to perform other low-hanging publicity stuns (think first space walk, first moon landing). The fact you _can't_ even land there is a massive accessibility boost. The thought is so exciting. The understanding of physics would be destined to leapfrog, distinctively changing humanity, and nature. Can anyone imagine something concrete?
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  First man to die by black hole?
  - yellowapple 3y ago
    "First human to experience spaghettification firsthand" would be quite the honor, I suppose.
    - jncfhnb 3y ago
      Some say he’s still experiencing it…
- dpe82 3y ago
  Related; it's instructive to learn that a significant motivation behind the Apollo program was its national defense implications: https://youtu.be/xZFnTBSRKcg?t=137 https://youtu.be/xZFnTBSRKcg?t=137
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  The majority of people would say it was dumb and wasteful much like they did for the moon landing and they would be pretty clearly correct.
  - eru 3y ago
    The moon landings were widely popular at the time, weren't they? Even the Soviets didn't say they were dumb and wasteful. (I tend to be a bit milder, and just say that the moon landings should be thought of as spending on entertainment, not on science. Manned space flight in general is very cost-ineffective, if you care about scientific bang for your buck.)
    - jncfhnb 3y ago
      Nope! Majority of Americans thought the Apollo program was a waste of money if you look at polls. This changed after it was successful and now we have retconned our history to say that everybody thought it was a great idea from the start. I don’t think it’s hypocritical to say that the moon landing was worth it but gearing up to go to a distant black hole is not*
kzrdude 3y ago
Do we even have a guess where it is right now? The orbit is huge, so the search area is ginormous, even if we would know approximately where in its orbit it would currently be.
skykooler 3y ago
Sending humans would be difficult (technically we have the technology already [see Project Orion], it's just illegal), but it's certainly possible to get a probe out there far faster than New Horizons. Travel speed is mainly determined by the delta-v of the upper stage. New Horizons used a Star-48B solid rocket motor to get to its escape trajectory. However, if the probe were smaller, or the launch vehicle bigger, it could have multiple upper stages, significantly increasing the ultimate speed. It might also be feasible to use an ion engine stage with solar panels and a route that dips down below Venus' orbit to get even more speed without increasing the probe mass significantly. In other words, with a large enough budget, we could easily get a probe to those distances in under a decade with no new technology required.
- seventytwo 3y ago
  “… with a large enough budget, we could easily…”
  - skykooler 3y ago
    If there were a new space race, budgets would probably increase.
    - aurareturn 3y ago
      It doesn't have to be political. Discovering a blackhole reachable by humans would be one of the most exciting discoveries possible. It might even unite nations to work together to get there as soon as possible.
  - aurareturn 3y ago
    If there's really a black hole there, I'd personally donate at least 10% of my year's salary to the program if it means we make it there within my lifetime. Studying it might allow us to finally unify GR and QM.
  - ada1981 3y ago
    Currently sums up my last romantic relationship…

zakki 3y ago

If there is a race to be the first to reach this “black hole” and the racers are careless, is it going to make “the black hole“ alive and getting bigger?

robofanatic 3y ago

If it is a black hole then won’t the nearest planets get sucked into it?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dingosity 3y ago
Only if the other planet's orbits take them near enough to the black hole to get sucked in. The main difference between a primordial black hole at about the Earth's mass and a planet at about the Earth's mass is the presumed density of dark matter around it. And I'm guessing there's more hawking radiation coming from the black hole than the planet. But small black holes with the same mass as the Earth have the same sucking power as the Earth since it's the mass that does the sucking.
dreamcompiler 3y ago
If our sun magically turned into a black hole of the same mass tomorrow, nothing would change on earth or in our solar system, except it would get very dark. Nothing would get "sucked in". We'd all freeze to death in a few days, but the earth would go right on orbiting as if nothing happened. If our moon turned into a black hole of its same mass tomorrow there would be even less of an effect. We'd notice we could no longer see the moon, but we'd still have tides just like before.

gofixurcode 3y ago

I think it’s hilarious that there could be a space race to get to a golf ball sized invisible object. I see the importance, but at the same time you must admit from a layman’s perspective it’s kinda comical.