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> Tesla accelerated the mass adoption of electric cars by at least a decade That is a VERY bold claim given that Tesla sedans only began sales 11 years ago. >

> Tesla accelerated the mass adoption of electric cars by at least a decade That is a VERY bold claim given that Tesla sedans only began sales 11 years ago. > Tesla’s workplace safety stats and their rate of progress are inextricably linked. If a 3x injury rate vs similar companies is cost of such progress, definitely worth it. That claim is even more bold. Other car companies are ramping up their electric assembly lines even faster than Tesla did in Germany with even less experience in electric car production. Shouldn't it follow that they should be maiming their workers at an incredible pace? Is there any reason to believe that design and technology innovation is linked to a higher injury rate in serial production? Shouldn't TSMCs chip factories be veritable slaughterhouses with that logic?

hef19898 3y ago
Those micro chips are people!
jamiequint 3y ago
[flagged]
- CaptainZapp 3y ago
  > You're either a moron or are intentionally missing the point. Would you please stop attacking commenters on a personal level. It's against the guidelines[0] of this board and is counterproductive to the quality of the discussion. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - jamiequint 3y ago
    Ok dad. How about if people don’t want to get called stupid they don’t say wildly stupid things instead.
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  You have made two claims 1. That virtually none of the progress made on Electric vehicles in the past decade would have happened without Tesla. This is unfalsifiable, but I can see that Ford, Mitsubishi, Honda, Nissan, Mini/BMW, Fiat and others were already mass-producing electric cars for sale in the US in 2012. Do I think that Tesla accelerated the idea of electric cars being cool? yes. Do I think that Tesla alone are responsible for getting us from the electric Ford Focus, to the Mustang Mach E? No. I'm pretty sure that was Ford. 2. That highly innovative, fast-paced workspaces are necessarily more dangerous to workers. We can point at the numerous innovative, efficient workplaces that are known to 'move fast and break things' where that isn't true. We could use the company that popularized the phrase, Facebook, as an example. Working for Facebook isn't notoriously dangerous. If you prefer hardware we can point to the company that used to own Tesla's Fremont factory, Toyota, who famously innovated higher quality and cheaper assembly at that very factory. > Perhaps you disagree with the statement that when you move fast that progress happens faster? When it comes to physical processes, I would push back on that. Moving fast can just mean doing shitty work. Turn the speed of the assembly line up to 11 and see if better cars come out. Maiming people so rich westerners can have cool cars is indefensible, and judging by the state of other car companies, unnecessary. I've worked in dangerous manufacturing facilities. They weren't faster or more innovative.
  - jamiequint 3y ago
    1. lol, wow a bunch of failing EV models whose sales were dying. Can you now compare the sales growth of the Leaf or Ford Focus electric to the Model S, or the later Model 3. The 3, S, and Y all signifiacantly raised the stakes for electric cars. The legacy automakers were not even close to mainstream adoption (patently obvious to any independent observer, just look at the sales numbers). 2. Not sure why you would reference a role with 0 occupational hazard to begin with and then data about quality and cost (not safety) here, maybe you are confused about the point? > Maiming people so rich westerners can have cool cars is indefensible Do you think Tesla’s only benefit is they are cool? Have you considered the climate impacts? Maiming all of humanity so you can protect hundreds of factory workers (who knowingly and willingly took a somewhat dangerous job) from injury is indefensible. It’s clear you only can wrestle with salient tradeoffs and more abstract or statistical ones are too difficult for you.

hef19898 3y ago

Those micro chips are people!

jamiequint 3y ago

[flagged]

CaptainZapp 3y ago
> You're either a moron or are intentionally missing the point. Would you please stop attacking commenters on a personal level. It's against the guidelines[0] of this board and is counterproductive to the quality of the discussion. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- jamiequint 3y ago
  Ok dad. How about if people don’t want to get called stupid they don’t say wildly stupid things instead.
dghlsakjg 3y ago
You have made two claims 1. That virtually none of the progress made on Electric vehicles in the past decade would have happened without Tesla. This is unfalsifiable, but I can see that Ford, Mitsubishi, Honda, Nissan, Mini/BMW, Fiat and others were already mass-producing electric cars for sale in the US in 2012. Do I think that Tesla accelerated the idea of electric cars being cool? yes. Do I think that Tesla alone are responsible for getting us from the electric Ford Focus, to the Mustang Mach E? No. I'm pretty sure that was Ford. 2. That highly innovative, fast-paced workspaces are necessarily more dangerous to workers. We can point at the numerous innovative, efficient workplaces that are known to 'move fast and break things' where that isn't true. We could use the company that popularized the phrase, Facebook, as an example. Working for Facebook isn't notoriously dangerous. If you prefer hardware we can point to the company that used to own Tesla's Fremont factory, Toyota, who famously innovated higher quality and cheaper assembly at that very factory. > Perhaps you disagree with the statement that when you move fast that progress happens faster? When it comes to physical processes, I would push back on that. Moving fast can just mean doing shitty work. Turn the speed of the assembly line up to 11 and see if better cars come out. Maiming people so rich westerners can have cool cars is indefensible, and judging by the state of other car companies, unnecessary. I've worked in dangerous manufacturing facilities. They weren't faster or more innovative.
- jamiequint 3y ago
  1. lol, wow a bunch of failing EV models whose sales were dying. Can you now compare the sales growth of the Leaf or Ford Focus electric to the Model S, or the later Model 3. The 3, S, and Y all signifiacantly raised the stakes for electric cars. The legacy automakers were not even close to mainstream adoption (patently obvious to any independent observer, just look at the sales numbers). 2. Not sure why you would reference a role with 0 occupational hazard to begin with and then data about quality and cost (not safety) here, maybe you are confused about the point? > Maiming people so rich westerners can have cool cars is indefensible Do you think Tesla’s only benefit is they are cool? Have you considered the climate impacts? Maiming all of humanity so you can protect hundreds of factory workers (who knowingly and willingly took a somewhat dangerous job) from injury is indefensible. It’s clear you only can wrestle with salient tradeoffs and more abstract or statistical ones are too difficult for you.