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Tesla accelerated the mass adoption of electric cars by at least a decade. Tesla’s workplace safety stats and their rate of progress are inextricably linked. If
by jamiequint 3y ago
Tesla accelerated the mass adoption of electric cars by at least a decade. Tesla’s workplace safety stats and their rate of progress are inextricably linked. If a 3x injury rate vs similar companies is cost of such progress, definitely worth it.
- dontlaugh 3y agoAccelerating the adoption of electric cars is not necessarily a good thing, for the planet or its people.
- Mrdarknezz 3y agoThat might cause some unintended friction which will cause over regulation and ultimately cause longer delays in the long term.
- codingcodingboy 3y agoOk let's ruin people lives for profit. Go take a look at an emergency room when somebody gets injured.
- jamiequint 3y agoHow many people's lives do you think would have been ruined by delaying the electrification of something that accounts for ~25% of worldwide greenhouse gas emissions by a decade or more?
- hef19898 3y agoSure, let other people suffer for my moral ideals and profits. Hell, we really didn't learn a single bit from the industrial revolution, did we? I guess Musk could walk down Holiwood Boulevard and kill someone without loosing a single fan at this point...
- netsharc 3y agoGod damn, keyboard warrior... why don't you go to work where a 50kg box may fall onto your head any time? Also you pay for a blue tick on Twitter. Yuck.
- enumjorge 3y agoAh yes. It reminds me of the tech libertarians that I’d so often come across in the Bay Area. Those who adopted Lord Farquaad’s philosophy that other people getting screwed over was a sacrifice they were willing to make. It doesn’t surprise me they are one of the blue checkmark people.
- jamiequint 3y ago[flagged]
- netsharc 3y agoAh yes, because anyone not seeing Elon as the guy who's brought an entire decade's of progress with electric cars and space travel and as the guy who's going to save humanity must be deranged, never mind what he says about things he's clueless about and how he treats his employees, those are media lies of haters and jealous people anyway, all hail the almighty Elon with his beautiful face and muscle and tremendeous sexual energy! And you have a hard-on for him, you do realize that right?
- jamiequint 3y agolol, no I’m just capable of more nuanced thought than “Elon treats employees bad and sometimes says dumb things thus Elon bad and incapable of doing good things”
- r053bud 3y agoDamn, you are really ok with an elevated injury rate for the sake of, “progress”? I guess I’m solidly a Luddite then.
- jeremyjh 3y ago> Tesla’s workplace safety stats and their rate of progress are inextricably linked. Why do you believe its impossible they could achieve just as much with fewer accidents? Is it possible that God Emperor Musk has permitted some degree of negligence in his operation?
- dghlsakjg 3y ago> Tesla accelerated the mass adoption of electric cars by at least a decade That is a VERY bold claim given that Tesla sedans only began sales 11 years ago. > Tesla’s workplace safety stats and their rate of progress are inextricably linked. If a 3x injury rate vs similar companies is cost of such progress, definitely worth it. That claim is even more bold. Other car companies are ramping up their electric assembly lines even faster than Tesla did in Germany with even less experience in electric car production. Shouldn't it follow that they should be maiming their workers at an incredible pace? Is there any reason to believe that design and technology innovation is linked to a higher injury rate in serial production? Shouldn't TSMCs chip factories be veritable slaughterhouses with that logic?
- hef19898 3y agoThose micro chips are people!
- jamiequint 3y ago[flagged]
- CaptainZapp 3y ago> You're either a moron or are intentionally missing the point. Would you please stop attacking commenters on a personal level. It's against the guidelines[0] of this board and is counterproductive to the quality of the discussion. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- jamiequint 3y agoOk dad. How about if people don’t want to get called stupid they don’t say wildly stupid things instead.
- dghlsakjg 3y agoYou have made two claims 1. That virtually none of the progress made on Electric vehicles in the past decade would have happened without Tesla. This is unfalsifiable, but I can see that Ford, Mitsubishi, Honda, Nissan, Mini/BMW, Fiat and others were already mass-producing electric cars for sale in the US in 2012. Do I think that Tesla accelerated the idea of electric cars being cool? yes. Do I think that Tesla alone are responsible for getting us from the electric Ford Focus, to the Mustang Mach E? No. I'm pretty sure that was Ford. 2. That highly innovative, fast-paced workspaces are necessarily more dangerous to workers. We can point at the numerous innovative, efficient workplaces that are known to 'move fast and break things' where that isn't true. We could use the company that popularized the phrase, Facebook, as an example. Working for Facebook isn't notoriously dangerous. If you prefer hardware we can point to the company that used to own Tesla's Fremont factory, Toyota, who famously innovated higher quality and cheaper assembly at that very factory. > Perhaps you disagree with the statement that when you move fast that progress happens faster? When it comes to physical processes, I would push back on that. Moving fast can just mean doing shitty work. Turn the speed of the assembly line up to 11 and see if better cars come out. Maiming people so rich westerners can have cool cars is indefensible, and judging by the state of other car companies, unnecessary. I've worked in dangerous manufacturing facilities. They weren't faster or more innovative.
- nerdponx 3y agoIt's not at all obvious that the 3x injury rate is in fact the cost of such progress.
- neilv 3y ago> Tesla accelerated the mass adoption of electric cars by at least a decade. Tesla’s workplace safety stats and their rate of progress are inextricably linked. If a 3x injury rate vs similar companies is cost of such progress, definitely worth it. I strongly disagree with that argument. A related argument with which I disagree is the one that people sometimes invoke to respond to accusations of exploited workers: arguing that the workers' lives were still generally elevated over what they would be, were the factory not there and exploiting them.
- ChadNauseam 3y ago> A related argument with which I disagree is the one that people sometimes invoke to respond to accusations of exploited workers: arguing that the workers' lives were still generally elevated over what they would be, were the factory not there and exploiting them. Could you elaborate on why you disagree with it?
- neilv 3y agoI think whatever is being rationalized that way is usually an unnecessary compromise.
- jamiequint 3y agoIf you look at what was going on in the electric car industry from 2003-2013 (heavy focus on plug in hybrids, very poor sales of the few existing EVs, etc) and compare the marketing strategy of the Model S and roadster to that of e.g. the Nissan Leaf, it’s a pretty obvious conclusion. Re: your 2nd point, nobody is forcing the workers to work at the factory. Try coming down from your ivory tower to touch grass sometime, might be good for you.
- neilv 3y ago> Re: your 2nd point, nobody is forcing the workers to work at the factory. Try coming down from your ivory tower to touch grass sometime, might be good for you. And "nobody is forcing this exploited person into that bad situation" is one of the other common arguments with which I disagree.
- __alexs 3y agoI'm not sure electric cars quicker is a good thing unless it is somehow also a faster path to less cars.
- micromacrofoot 3y agoHow many bodies should we toss into the progress furnace
- fodkodrasz 3y ago> If a 3x injury rate vs similar companies is cost of such progress, definitely worth it. put your money where your mouth is: go work there, taking the risk yourself, but it is at least unethical to talk about other people's health this way.
- BiteCode_dev 3y agoUnless you are using only second hand electronic devices and clothes, you are literally writing this comment in a life built by slave, some children. Put your money where your mouth is and buy no brand new clothes or electronics for the rest of your life. The virtue signaling is really poisoning this decades.
- fodkodrasz 3y agoWow, just wow!
- jamiequint 3y agoBasic logic is hard for you, eh?
- fodkodrasz 3y agoJust not living in a slaver country, unlike you. Written from my second hand computer.
- jamiequint 3y agoLetting people take risks is not unethical as long as the risk is disclosed. Put your money where your mouth is and throw out all your electronics, which are definitely not assembled by workers who on average make more than the median household income in the area they live (as Tesla factory workers do).
- hef19898 3y agoIntentionally putting employee health at risk is illegal where Tesla Grünheide favtory is. Doing so through negligence as well. All you do is advocating for exploiting people in the name of profit by finding some bogus excuses.
- neilv 3y ago(Parent comment was dead, but I vouched for it, even though I disagree with it. It represents some not-unusual beliefs, and I think we'd be better off if those beliefs were talked about.)
- ahahahahah 3y agoAn extremely well funded company willing to lose money on every sale thus delaying incumbents' investments by years could actually be blamed for slowing adoption just as easily as praised for speeding it.