6 ms·

I mean, keep in mind that the Pi5 is a $60 device with ~$60+ of support hardware (Power supply, cable, miniHDMI to HDMI, Cooling, Case, Storage) You can get con

I mean, keep in mind that the Pi5 is a $60 device with ~$60+ of support hardware (Power supply, cable, miniHDMI to HDMI, Cooling, Case, Storage) You can get considerably more powerful mini PCs for less than a 4GB Pi5 with needed accessories that is upgradable, has further software support, and includes all of what you need to get with a Pi. Also, you are reducing eWaste.

fanf2 3y ago
The starter kits which include all that stuff have been about 150% of the price of the bare board for older models.
- agloe_dreams 3y ago
  So at $90, that is 270 results on ebay, many have more ram, I'm filtering on free shipping only. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=mini%20pc&_sacat=0&_udhi=90&RAM%2520Size=4%2520GB%7C8%2520GB&_dcat=179&LH_ItemCondition=2010%7C2020%7C2030%7C3000%7C2000&_sop=16&LH_FS=1&rt=nc https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=mini%20pc&_sa...
jancsika 3y ago
> You can get considerably more powerful mini PCs for less than a 4GB Pi5 with needed accessories that is upgradable, has further software support, and includes all of what you need to get with a Pi. Name three, please, with emphasis on the "considerably more powerful" part.
- agloe_dreams 3y ago
  Sure...but it might take me a while...how about this, I'll name...as of current, 385 under $100 all with free shipping: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=mini%20pc&_sacat=0&_udhi=100&RAM%2520Size=4%2520GB%7C8%2520GB&_dcat=179&LH_ItemCondition=2010%7C2020%7C2030%7C3000%7C2000&_sop=16&LH_FS=1&rt=nc https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=mini%20pc&_sa... The Pi5 is slower than a Core i3 6100, does not support upgradable ram, does not support Pci Gen 3 let alone Gen 3 x16, no actual Sata 6, no upgradable sockets, etc. There are a TON of uses cases for a Pi 5...but only really if power consumption and size is critical for the application. Almost anyone doing a Pihole, Home assistant, or the like is better served by a used miniPc.
  - justin66 3y ago
    Someone buying used electronics on eBay has already decided that their time is worthless and the hardware doesn't need to be dependable out of the box. Which is fine, those are decisions a person could make, but it's just disingenuous to compare the value of one thing to another without taking the you are using someone's untested trash factor into account.
    - Eduard 3y ago
      Raspberry Pi 4s fresh out of the factory often have hardware issues themselves (HDMI connector failures, unreliable USB port power supply on reboot etc.), as one can see from the numerous (and unacknowleged) reports on Raspberry Pi forums — so I find the comparison with used hardware fair.
      - wds 3y ago
        I highly doubt that brand-new Raspberry Pis and used PCs on eBay have anywhere close to comparable failure rates.
        amluto 3y ago
        Anecdote: my one attempt to use a Raspberry Pi PoE hat ended in almost immediate failure due to a mechanical failure of a header on the hat. (Also the built in fan is crap.) The RPi itself is still going strong.
      - justin66 3y ago
        Why lie? Pis have fragile connectors and they certainly break more often during use than a brand name laptop's connectors, but they do not have a high defect rate out of the box.
    - aksss 3y ago
      There are reasons to prefer a Pi over a used mini PC, but it is not reliability. The fact is that with Pis or PCs, _if_ you're still running after a week, you're highly, highly, likely to survive past the point of usefulness. Reasons to prefer a pi over a mini PC - easy access to GPIO pins; small(er) form factor; power efficiency; lower weight; still cost if you can work with zeros. Reasons to prefer a mini PC over a Pi - price to performance ratio is often far, far better; size is "good enough" for people just after a small computer (rather than an electronics project, POC, etc); you are, in fact, reducing ewaste. In short, if you just need something to run Home Assistant or Plex on ProxMox or similar, you would find more reward in a mini PC than a Pi, particularly in performance. The bias at play is that people see "old" and equate it with "bad performance". That heuristic only works when comparing like for like - yesterday's mini-PC to today's mini-PC.
- dingi 3y ago
  How about a mini pc with Alder lake N95 with 8g RAM/256g nvme for $120 https://a.aliexpress.com/_mt4AHVM https://a.aliexpress.com/_mt4AHVM
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - mattigames 3y ago
    So double the price for slighly better CPU (3.9GHz turbo speed vs 2.4GHz -or 2.9GHz with OC-, both with 2MB L2 cache), for energy it needs 36W (vs 10W), 2 usb ports (vs 4), no microSD support, and it weights 4 times as much (without including HDD); it does have 256 GB of storage included but for $20 you can get a microSD of the same capacity for the Rpi5 (or 128GB for $10 when that's enough). Yeah, it doesn't look as that much of an improvement.
    - StillBored 3y ago
      I just clicked it, and it shows $107 for the 8G/128G version. But either way, I think your seriously conflating a lot of variables. Things like power draw are not really comparable unless you pick a workload and measure the perf/power, as just clamping the max frequency down, or putting less ram in it can constrain actual power draw, while still possibly being as performant as the rpi. I don't see pricing for the case + fan + power supply on the rpi, but the 8G model is $80 for the board. So you have to find at a minimum a battery for the RTC, a case, fan, powersupply, and 128G SD for $30. But then SD isn't in the same ballpark as even the cheapest SSD with respect to longevity or at $10 likely perf either. Plus, your shit out of luck if you need 16G of ram on the rpi vs paying an extra $18 on the beelink. In the end, the rpi is going to be a fun hack device, while the beelink is going to just work with a wide variety of software (windows anyone?) and Jeff G won't have to complain about his m.2->pcie->graphics card not working out of the box either. OTOH, if you actually need to design a HAT/whatever for some special purpose it might be easier than designing a m.2 PCIe device, or it might not be. The GPIO on the rpi might be very handy if it happens to work better than a ESP/whatever attached to the beelinks USB port driving GPIO pins. Much of this is going to come down to how much one values their time for one off devices, and for larger production runs the fact that the beelink is just one of hundreds (likely thousands) of similar devices that can be drop in replaced when beelink has a supply issue. Particularly because there are devices that are just a $100 more with multiple 2.5G links, sata ports, whatever.
LeafItAlone 3y ago
> You can get considerably more powerful mini PCs for less than a 4GB Pi5 with needed accessories that is upgradable What suggestions do you have for this? I’m sure some people can find these, but every time I see comments like these (or ones that actually give specifics), it’s always used ones on eBay that aren’t actually better and are in unknown condition. I’m not doubting that some people come out ahead, but for me, being able to get* the same hardware each time, new, has value. Also, a huge draw for RPIs for me are the GPIO pins. * Yes, the past few years were hard, but not impossible.
- dewbrite 3y ago
  When RPi 4 was going for $200, I got some Orange Pi 5s for about $140 each. My configuration included 8GB RAM, the power supply, and a 250GB NVMe drive. It seems like it's about on par with the RPi 5 in terms of power. The OS support is lacking, but the M.2 and +4 "Little" cores make it pretty compelling regardless. Edit: just saw the pi 5 has PCIe :0
- agloe_dreams 3y ago
  The used on ebay is the actual upside. The issue is that most people do not need the size of a Pi and using used hardware is reducing eWaste. That said, my personal grab was an Acer refurbished Acer XC-830 J4125 for $89.
  - esrauch 3y ago
    While that looks like a nice small-ish tower PC it doesn't seem like it's in the same class as an rPI on a lot of axes, it seems half way between an rPI and a full desktop tower.

fanf2 3y ago

The starter kits which include all that stuff have been about 150% of the price of the bare board for older models.

agloe_dreams 3y ago
So at $90, that is 270 results on ebay, many have more ram, I'm filtering on free shipping only. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=mini%20pc&_sacat=0&_udhi=90&RAM%2520Size=4%2520GB%7C8%2520GB&_dcat=179&LH_ItemCondition=2010%7C2020%7C2030%7C3000%7C2000&_sop=16&LH_FS=1&rt=nc https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=mini%20pc&_sa...

jancsika 3y ago

> You can get considerably more powerful mini PCs for less than a 4GB Pi5 with needed accessories that is upgradable, has further software support, and includes all of what you need to get with a Pi. Name three, please, with emphasis on the "considerably more powerful" part.

agloe_dreams 3y ago
Sure...but it might take me a while...how about this, I'll name...as of current, 385 under $100 all with free shipping: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=mini%20pc&_sacat=0&_udhi=100&RAM%2520Size=4%2520GB%7C8%2520GB&_dcat=179&LH_ItemCondition=2010%7C2020%7C2030%7C3000%7C2000&_sop=16&LH_FS=1&rt=nc https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=mini%20pc&_sa... The Pi5 is slower than a Core i3 6100, does not support upgradable ram, does not support Pci Gen 3 let alone Gen 3 x16, no actual Sata 6, no upgradable sockets, etc. There are a TON of uses cases for a Pi 5...but only really if power consumption and size is critical for the application. Almost anyone doing a Pihole, Home assistant, or the like is better served by a used miniPc.
- justin66 3y ago
  Someone buying used electronics on eBay has already decided that their time is worthless and the hardware doesn't need to be dependable out of the box. Which is fine, those are decisions a person could make, but it's just disingenuous to compare the value of one thing to another without taking the you are using someone's untested trash factor into account.
  - Eduard 3y ago
    Raspberry Pi 4s fresh out of the factory often have hardware issues themselves (HDMI connector failures, unreliable USB port power supply on reboot etc.), as one can see from the numerous (and unacknowleged) reports on Raspberry Pi forums — so I find the comparison with used hardware fair.
    - wds 3y ago
      I highly doubt that brand-new Raspberry Pis and used PCs on eBay have anywhere close to comparable failure rates.
      - amluto 3y ago
        Anecdote: my one attempt to use a Raspberry Pi PoE hat ended in almost immediate failure due to a mechanical failure of a header on the hat. (Also the built in fan is crap.) The RPi itself is still going strong.
    - justin66 3y ago
      Why lie? Pis have fragile connectors and they certainly break more often during use than a brand name laptop's connectors, but they do not have a high defect rate out of the box.
  - aksss 3y ago
    There are reasons to prefer a Pi over a used mini PC, but it is not reliability. The fact is that with Pis or PCs, _if_ you're still running after a week, you're highly, highly, likely to survive past the point of usefulness. Reasons to prefer a pi over a mini PC - easy access to GPIO pins; small(er) form factor; power efficiency; lower weight; still cost if you can work with zeros. Reasons to prefer a mini PC over a Pi - price to performance ratio is often far, far better; size is "good enough" for people just after a small computer (rather than an electronics project, POC, etc); you are, in fact, reducing ewaste. In short, if you just need something to run Home Assistant or Plex on ProxMox or similar, you would find more reward in a mini PC than a Pi, particularly in performance. The bias at play is that people see "old" and equate it with "bad performance". That heuristic only works when comparing like for like - yesterday's mini-PC to today's mini-PC.
dingi 3y ago
How about a mini pc with Alder lake N95 with 8g RAM/256g nvme for $120 https://a.aliexpress.com/_mt4AHVM https://a.aliexpress.com/_mt4AHVM
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- mattigames 3y ago
  So double the price for slighly better CPU (3.9GHz turbo speed vs 2.4GHz -or 2.9GHz with OC-, both with 2MB L2 cache), for energy it needs 36W (vs 10W), 2 usb ports (vs 4), no microSD support, and it weights 4 times as much (without including HDD); it does have 256 GB of storage included but for $20 you can get a microSD of the same capacity for the Rpi5 (or 128GB for $10 when that's enough). Yeah, it doesn't look as that much of an improvement.
  - StillBored 3y ago
    I just clicked it, and it shows $107 for the 8G/128G version. But either way, I think your seriously conflating a lot of variables. Things like power draw are not really comparable unless you pick a workload and measure the perf/power, as just clamping the max frequency down, or putting less ram in it can constrain actual power draw, while still possibly being as performant as the rpi. I don't see pricing for the case + fan + power supply on the rpi, but the 8G model is $80 for the board. So you have to find at a minimum a battery for the RTC, a case, fan, powersupply, and 128G SD for $30. But then SD isn't in the same ballpark as even the cheapest SSD with respect to longevity or at $10 likely perf either. Plus, your shit out of luck if you need 16G of ram on the rpi vs paying an extra $18 on the beelink. In the end, the rpi is going to be a fun hack device, while the beelink is going to just work with a wide variety of software (windows anyone?) and Jeff G won't have to complain about his m.2->pcie->graphics card not working out of the box either. OTOH, if you actually need to design a HAT/whatever for some special purpose it might be easier than designing a m.2 PCIe device, or it might not be. The GPIO on the rpi might be very handy if it happens to work better than a ESP/whatever attached to the beelinks USB port driving GPIO pins. Much of this is going to come down to how much one values their time for one off devices, and for larger production runs the fact that the beelink is just one of hundreds (likely thousands) of similar devices that can be drop in replaced when beelink has a supply issue. Particularly because there are devices that are just a $100 more with multiple 2.5G links, sata ports, whatever.

LeafItAlone 3y ago

> You can get considerably more powerful mini PCs for less than a 4GB Pi5 with needed accessories that is upgradable What suggestions do you have for this? I’m sure some people can find these, but every time I see comments like these (or ones that actually give specifics), it’s always used ones on eBay that aren’t actually better and are in unknown condition. I’m not doubting that some people come out ahead, but for me, being able to get* the same hardware each time, new, has value. Also, a huge draw for RPIs for me are the GPIO pins. * Yes, the past few years were hard, but not impossible.

dewbrite 3y ago
When RPi 4 was going for $200, I got some Orange Pi 5s for about $140 each. My configuration included 8GB RAM, the power supply, and a 250GB NVMe drive. It seems like it's about on par with the RPi 5 in terms of power. The OS support is lacking, but the M.2 and +4 "Little" cores make it pretty compelling regardless. Edit: just saw the pi 5 has PCIe :0
agloe_dreams 3y ago
The used on ebay is the actual upside. The issue is that most people do not need the size of a Pi and using used hardware is reducing eWaste. That said, my personal grab was an Acer refurbished Acer XC-830 J4125 for $89.
- esrauch 3y ago
  While that looks like a nice small-ish tower PC it doesn't seem like it's in the same class as an rPI on a lot of axes, it seems half way between an rPI and a full desktop tower.