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Most of modern Scotland was forest up until a fairly recent time. The felling of one tree is an instagram tragedy; the felling of one billion is an economic sta

Most of modern Scotland was forest up until a fairly recent time. The felling of one tree is an instagram tragedy; the felling of one billion is an economic statistic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Forest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Forest

Floegipoky 3y ago
Perspective on "fairly recent" from wiki: > An examination of the earliest maps of Scotland suggests that the extent of the Caledonian Forest remnants has changed little since 1600.
- AlecSchueler 3y ago
  "Recent" is always a funny thing. In my mind 1600 is roughly the start, or a little after the start, of the modern period, therefore recent. Who was it that said "In Europe 100 miles is a long way, in America 100 years is a long time?"
  - karaterobot 3y ago
    > Who was it that said "In Europe 100 miles is a long way, in America 100 years is a long time?" In my experience, everyone on HN whenever the opportunity to quote it arises.
  - edent 3y ago
    That's a surprisingly difficult question to answer. https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2023/09/who-said-brits-think-100-miles-is-a-long-distance-americans-think-100-years-is-a-long-time/ https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2023/09/who-said-brits-think-100-mi...
  - qingcharles 3y ago
    I love in the US when people boast their house was built in the 1800s. 1800s! In England I consider that fancy new construction. But yes, it boggles peoples' minds in England when you travel more than a couple of hours by car to go anywhere. If I told a Brit I drove my car 2500 miles to L.A. on a whim they would have me institutionalized.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      To be fair though, 1800 is a while ago, especially for wooden construction. But I've lived in a wooden house that was built in 1625 that probably was on it's fifth renovation by 1800. And it still stands today.
      - toyg 3y ago
        Pfft, in Italian terms 1625 is like, yesterday. I got married in a church built in the IX century, half the central buildings in my hometown are from 1300-1400. And we're just nouveau riche compared to Roma.
        jacquesm 3y ago
        Yes, Italy (and Greece too as well as parts of Croatia) are amazing in that way.
        mnw21cam 3y ago
        It's not just Italy. For instance, I was married in a church built in the 10th century, in England.
    - noelwelsh 3y ago
      2500 miles from London puts you somewhere in central Asia. I found the following route, which is just shy of that distance: https://www.distance.to/London/Samara,Samara-Oblast,RUS https://www.distance.to/London/Samara,Samara-Oblast,RUS It would be an amazing trip, but it would involve crossing many borders and going through some fairly dodgy countries. I think there is a reasonable case that no sane person would do that on a whim.
      - qingcharles 3y ago
        That's crazy when you see it like that. Furthest I ever made it by car from the UK was Hungary and that took me about 10 days! I did that trip to LA in 2 days there, 2 days back. And my car radio didn't work :(
rwnspace 3y ago
Right, so we can just completely ignore the symbolic/iconic importance. I don't know why I've seen Instagram mentioned several times already but it's recognition as a place of significant natural beauty and featuring in all sorts of media was WELL before some stupid website of people sharing photos existed.
- AlecSchueler 3y ago
  > we can just completely ignore the symbolic/iconic importance. I think the person above was arguing for the opposite of this: Not that we should ignore this tragedy, but that we should more viscerally feel the extent of the greater tragedy and put energy into righting it.
- datameta 3y ago
  The point is not that Instagram is the cause. It is the fact that upward movement in class worldwide has provided almost a billion extra people as tourists in just one generation, and the most commonly 'grammed locations tend to attract people that would not have otherwise learned about them.
pjc50 3y ago
It was bare enough for Boswell and Johnson on their famous tour of Scotland to remark on it. In 1773. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Journey_to_the_Western_Islands_of_Scotland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Journey_to_the_Western_Islan... It has actually improved since the first world war, when there was large scale replanting of trees. For the rest of it, there remains a complex question: the moorland, as it is now, is an ecosystem in itself, and the main force preventing reforestation naturally is wild deer.
dontlaugh 3y ago
Thankfully, that is being (slowly) addressed. It's been particularly successful around Loch an Eilein, very nicely visible from the lake.

Floegipoky 3y ago

Perspective on "fairly recent" from wiki: > An examination of the earliest maps of Scotland suggests that the extent of the Caledonian Forest remnants has changed little since 1600.

AlecSchueler 3y ago
"Recent" is always a funny thing. In my mind 1600 is roughly the start, or a little after the start, of the modern period, therefore recent. Who was it that said "In Europe 100 miles is a long way, in America 100 years is a long time?"
- karaterobot 3y ago
  > Who was it that said "In Europe 100 miles is a long way, in America 100 years is a long time?" In my experience, everyone on HN whenever the opportunity to quote it arises.
- edent 3y ago
  That's a surprisingly difficult question to answer. https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2023/09/who-said-brits-think-100-miles-is-a-long-distance-americans-think-100-years-is-a-long-time/ https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2023/09/who-said-brits-think-100-mi...
- qingcharles 3y ago
  I love in the US when people boast their house was built in the 1800s. 1800s! In England I consider that fancy new construction. But yes, it boggles peoples' minds in England when you travel more than a couple of hours by car to go anywhere. If I told a Brit I drove my car 2500 miles to L.A. on a whim they would have me institutionalized.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    To be fair though, 1800 is a while ago, especially for wooden construction. But I've lived in a wooden house that was built in 1625 that probably was on it's fifth renovation by 1800. And it still stands today.
    - toyg 3y ago
      Pfft, in Italian terms 1625 is like, yesterday. I got married in a church built in the IX century, half the central buildings in my hometown are from 1300-1400. And we're just nouveau riche compared to Roma.
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        Yes, Italy (and Greece too as well as parts of Croatia) are amazing in that way.
      - mnw21cam 3y ago
        It's not just Italy. For instance, I was married in a church built in the 10th century, in England.
  - noelwelsh 3y ago
    2500 miles from London puts you somewhere in central Asia. I found the following route, which is just shy of that distance: https://www.distance.to/London/Samara,Samara-Oblast,RUS https://www.distance.to/London/Samara,Samara-Oblast,RUS It would be an amazing trip, but it would involve crossing many borders and going through some fairly dodgy countries. I think there is a reasonable case that no sane person would do that on a whim.
    - qingcharles 3y ago
      That's crazy when you see it like that. Furthest I ever made it by car from the UK was Hungary and that took me about 10 days! I did that trip to LA in 2 days there, 2 days back. And my car radio didn't work :(

rwnspace 3y ago

Right, so we can just completely ignore the symbolic/iconic importance. I don't know why I've seen Instagram mentioned several times already but it's recognition as a place of significant natural beauty and featuring in all sorts of media was WELL before some stupid website of people sharing photos existed.

AlecSchueler 3y ago
> we can just completely ignore the symbolic/iconic importance. I think the person above was arguing for the opposite of this: Not that we should ignore this tragedy, but that we should more viscerally feel the extent of the greater tragedy and put energy into righting it.
datameta 3y ago
The point is not that Instagram is the cause. It is the fact that upward movement in class worldwide has provided almost a billion extra people as tourists in just one generation, and the most commonly 'grammed locations tend to attract people that would not have otherwise learned about them.

pjc50 3y ago

It was bare enough for Boswell and Johnson on their famous tour of Scotland to remark on it. In 1773. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Journey_to_the_Western_Islands_of_Scotland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Journey_to_the_Western_Islan... It has actually improved since the first world war, when there was large scale replanting of trees. For the rest of it, there remains a complex question: the moorland, as it is now, is an ecosystem in itself, and the main force preventing reforestation naturally is wild deer.

dontlaugh 3y ago

Thankfully, that is being (slowly) addressed. It's been particularly successful around Loch an Eilein, very nicely visible from the lake.