3 ms·

Woman sues McDonald's after she's burned by hot coffee, echoing 1994 case

1 points by isaacfrond 3y ago

isaacfrond 3y ago
The McDonald's coffee case is often ridiculed, but I understand that they have their coffee temperatures intentionally quite high. Apparently, this would mask the taste of cheap beans. Are McDonald's coffees (in US, because in EU it certainly is not) absurdly hot?
bell-cot 3y ago
Old geezer perspective (on "hot coffee"-type lawsuits): I very seldom eat out, and do most of the cooking at home - including making coffee, tea, spaghetti, fried chicken and such. If I'm a bit klutzy in my own kitchen, or have a "senior moment", and get burned by hot oil, boiling water, a hot pan, a "burner" on the stovetop, or whatever - then who do I get to sue? The grocery store that sold me the cooking oil and chicken? The local water utility? The electric or gas company? The companies that made my stove and pots? The publisher of a cookbook? When you are just too old (or too ditzy) to safely do certain things, then you need to adjust how you live, to keep yourself safe. Or you approach things like icy sidewalks (good for major bones fractures, with only a "slight" fall, when you're old) with extreme caution. And if you do get hurt, then you act like you are still a grown-up, and take responsibility.
- ttfkam 3y ago
  Tell us you didn't read the linked article or the history of the original hot coffee lawsuit without actually saying you didn't read it.
  - bell-cot 3y ago
    I read it far enough to see the [paraphrasing] "picked up a cup of hot coffee by the not-snapped-on-correctly lid" punchline (for the new case). I'm old enough to know that neither flimsy disposable plastic fast-food beverage lids, nor their assembly onto cups of hot coffee, are subject to much in the way of QC. My mother, who learned to cook on a wood-fired stove, taught me that you don't move or carry anything dangerously hot & unsecured close to your body. When she got older, taking the hot Thanksgiving turkey out of the oven was a job given to someone young and strong, even if she insisted on doing every other bit of cooking it.
    - ttfkam 3y ago
      > I read it far enough Clearly not since the crux of both lawsuits has nothing to do with the build quality of cups or lids. Entertaining overview: https://youtu.be/KNWh6Kw3ejQ https://youtu.be/KNWh6Kw3ejQ Lawyer's examination: https://youtu.be/s_jaU5V9FUg https://youtu.be/s_jaU5V9FUg Whichever you prefer. Did you know the woman who sued so many years ago just wanted her burn injuries paid for, not a multi-million dollar payout? The coffee is brewed at such a high temperature, it could not be consumed when delivered to the customer. It was a known issue for many years with repeated (broken) promises to fix it. Rather than immediate consumption, the high temperature was targeted for folks to buy it, put it in a cup holder, drive to work, and then drink it upon arrival, by which time it would have presumably cooled to a drinkable temperature. For this use case it worked. However at the point of sale it is hot enough to cause third-degree burns through clothing within two seconds. If you spill it in a car, your mobility to deal with such a burning hazard is also predictably quite limited. Your clothing keeps the hot liquid next to your skin, prevents the heat from radiating away as quickly, and the seat belt restricts movement even further even if the car is not in motion. Liquid hot enough to cause third-degree burns in two seconds in a confined space is absolutely considered a foreseeable hazard for the vendor under laws regarding liability, especially after they were given multiple warnings prior to injury. "But I want hotter coffee, so it's still hot when I get to work," you might retort. A wood-burning stove in your home is a risk of your own making. A hot turkey is a risk of your own making. Too-hot coffee in your home is a risk of your own making. Too-hot coffee from McDonalds is a risk created someone selling it en masse to the public. "Coffee is hot," is universally intuitive. "The coffee is so hot it'll give you third-degree burns through your clothing," has not been deemed intuitive in a court of law. It was also deemed both foreseeable and preventable, which is why McDonalds lost that lawsuit so many years ago despite their unsavory smear campaign.

1 points by isaacfrond 3y ago

The McDonald's coffee case is often ridiculed, but I understand that they have their coffee temperatures intentionally quite high. Apparently, this would mask the taste of cheap beans. Are McDonald's coffees (in US, because in EU it certainly is not) absurdly hot?

bell-cot 3y ago

Old geezer perspective (on "hot coffee"-type lawsuits): I very seldom eat out, and do most of the cooking at home - including making coffee, tea, spaghetti, fried chicken and such. If I'm a bit klutzy in my own kitchen, or have a "senior moment", and get burned by hot oil, boiling water, a hot pan, a "burner" on the stovetop, or whatever - then who do I get to sue? The grocery store that sold me the cooking oil and chicken? The local water utility? The electric or gas company? The companies that made my stove and pots? The publisher of a cookbook? When you are just too old (or too ditzy) to safely do certain things, then you need to adjust how you live, to keep yourself safe. Or you approach things like icy sidewalks (good for major bones fractures, with only a "slight" fall, when you're old) with extreme caution. And if you do get hurt, then you act like you are still a grown-up, and take responsibility.

ttfkam 3y ago
Tell us you didn't read the linked article or the history of the original hot coffee lawsuit without actually saying you didn't read it.
- bell-cot 3y ago
  I read it far enough to see the [paraphrasing] "picked up a cup of hot coffee by the not-snapped-on-correctly lid" punchline (for the new case). I'm old enough to know that neither flimsy disposable plastic fast-food beverage lids, nor their assembly onto cups of hot coffee, are subject to much in the way of QC. My mother, who learned to cook on a wood-fired stove, taught me that you don't move or carry anything dangerously hot & unsecured close to your body. When she got older, taking the hot Thanksgiving turkey out of the oven was a job given to someone young and strong, even if she insisted on doing every other bit of cooking it.
  - ttfkam 3y ago
    > I read it far enough Clearly not since the crux of both lawsuits has nothing to do with the build quality of cups or lids. Entertaining overview: https://youtu.be/KNWh6Kw3ejQ https://youtu.be/KNWh6Kw3ejQ Lawyer's examination: https://youtu.be/s_jaU5V9FUg https://youtu.be/s_jaU5V9FUg Whichever you prefer. Did you know the woman who sued so many years ago just wanted her burn injuries paid for, not a multi-million dollar payout? The coffee is brewed at such a high temperature, it could not be consumed when delivered to the customer. It was a known issue for many years with repeated (broken) promises to fix it. Rather than immediate consumption, the high temperature was targeted for folks to buy it, put it in a cup holder, drive to work, and then drink it upon arrival, by which time it would have presumably cooled to a drinkable temperature. For this use case it worked. However at the point of sale it is hot enough to cause third-degree burns through clothing within two seconds. If you spill it in a car, your mobility to deal with such a burning hazard is also predictably quite limited. Your clothing keeps the hot liquid next to your skin, prevents the heat from radiating away as quickly, and the seat belt restricts movement even further even if the car is not in motion. Liquid hot enough to cause third-degree burns in two seconds in a confined space is absolutely considered a foreseeable hazard for the vendor under laws regarding liability, especially after they were given multiple warnings prior to injury. "But I want hotter coffee, so it's still hot when I get to work," you might retort. A wood-burning stove in your home is a risk of your own making. A hot turkey is a risk of your own making. Too-hot coffee in your home is a risk of your own making. Too-hot coffee from McDonalds is a risk created someone selling it en masse to the public. "Coffee is hot," is universally intuitive. "The coffee is so hot it'll give you third-degree burns through your clothing," has not been deemed intuitive in a court of law. It was also deemed both foreseeable and preventable, which is why McDonalds lost that lawsuit so many years ago despite their unsavory smear campaign.