4 ms·

And don't forget "Yaml Aint a Markup Language". It's actually apparently a data serialization format, which I don't get, because it's obviously designed to loo

And don't forget "Yaml Aint a Markup Language". It's actually apparently a data serialization format, which I don't get, because it's obviously designed to look nice to humans and not computers.

pavlov 3y ago
It’s not uncommon that humans have to read serialized data without a tool to transform it for display. I’m not saying that’s a good argument for using YAML, but IMO it should be a consideration for any data format that’s not binary. The worst data formats are “not binary but still unreadable.” Apple Cocoa XML serialization format, I’m looking at you.
username332211 3y ago
Markup languages aren't supposed to look nice to humans? They are supposed to produce documents that do. Markdown is a markup format that looks nice to humans, but neither XML nor HTML are particularly nice. Some XML-based formats like Microsoft Office documents are downright incomprehensible without specialized tools.
- brabel 3y ago
  Markdown is NOT a serialization format.
  - hk__2 3y ago
    > Markdown is NOT a serialization format. It obviously is, as you can see in [1] or [2]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YAML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YAML [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_data-serialization_formats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_data-serializati...
    - brabel 3y ago
      Did you read what you replied to??
  - username332211 3y ago
    I meant to write markup format. Corrected it.
rewmie 3y ago
> It's actually apparently a data serialization format, which I don't get, because it's obviously designed to look nice to humans and not computers. What's hard to get? It's a data interchange format whose primary usecase is to store data structures intended to be read and edited by humans, using plain old text editors.
- FireInsight 3y ago
  Maybe I'm misunderstanding serialization here, but my understanding of it is that a program can serialize it's internal datastructure into a easily transmittable or readable format. And YAML is almost always a configuration format, (so a deserialization format?) Edit: > In computing, serialization (or serialisation) is the process of translating a data structure or object state into a format that can be stored (e.g. files in secondary storage devices, data buffers in primary storage devices) or transmitted (e.g. data streams over computer networks) and reconstructed later (possibly in a different computer environment). [Wikipedia] So a serialization format is something a machine generates to store or transmit some internal data structure or state. JSON is an obvious example. YAML on the other hand is a superset of JSON with a lot of different ways to represent the same data. This creates a problem; the serializer has to choose which way to use. But writing YAML is simple, way more than JSON. Built in to YAML there are many things that seem to me to be made for the humans writing the format and not a program serializing to it. In fact, it's not often I see some machine-generated YAML, it's almost always something made for humans to write.

And don't forget "Yaml Aint a Markup Language". It's actually apparently a data serialization format, which I don't get, because it's obviously designed to look nice to humans and not computers.

pavlov 3y ago

It’s not uncommon that humans have to read serialized data without a tool to transform it for display. I’m not saying that’s a good argument for using YAML, but IMO it should be a consideration for any data format that’s not binary. The worst data formats are “not binary but still unreadable.” Apple Cocoa XML serialization format, I’m looking at you.

username332211 3y ago

Markup languages aren't supposed to look nice to humans? They are supposed to produce documents that do. Markdown is a markup format that looks nice to humans, but neither XML nor HTML are particularly nice. Some XML-based formats like Microsoft Office documents are downright incomprehensible without specialized tools.

brabel 3y ago
Markdown is NOT a serialization format.
- hk__2 3y ago
  > Markdown is NOT a serialization format. It obviously is, as you can see in [1] or [2]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YAML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YAML [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_data-serialization_formats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_data-serializati...
  - brabel 3y ago
    Did you read what you replied to??
- username332211 3y ago
  I meant to write markup format. Corrected it.

rewmie 3y ago

> It's actually apparently a data serialization format, which I don't get, because it's obviously designed to look nice to humans and not computers. What's hard to get? It's a data interchange format whose primary usecase is to store data structures intended to be read and edited by humans, using plain old text editors.

FireInsight 3y ago
Maybe I'm misunderstanding serialization here, but my understanding of it is that a program can serialize it's internal datastructure into a easily transmittable or readable format. And YAML is almost always a configuration format, (so a deserialization format?) Edit: > In computing, serialization (or serialisation) is the process of translating a data structure or object state into a format that can be stored (e.g. files in secondary storage devices, data buffers in primary storage devices) or transmitted (e.g. data streams over computer networks) and reconstructed later (possibly in a different computer environment). [Wikipedia] So a serialization format is something a machine generates to store or transmit some internal data structure or state. JSON is an obvious example. YAML on the other hand is a superset of JSON with a lot of different ways to represent the same data. This creates a problem; the serializer has to choose which way to use. But writing YAML is simple, way more than JSON. Built in to YAML there are many things that seem to me to be made for the humans writing the format and not a program serializing to it. In fact, it's not often I see some machine-generated YAML, it's almost always something made for humans to write.