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That's just not true. You have been able to file the compensation claim online for at least a decade. Since a few years, you can do it with two taps in the app

That's just not true. You have been able to file the compensation claim online for at least a decade. Since a few years, you can do it with two taps in the app. There is compensation for monthly ticket holders, but it is capped at 50% of the ticket price. All that is very strictly enforced by the ministry. You just have to know your rights.

close04 3y ago
What's not true? > You have been able to file the compensation claim online for at least a decade. Since a few years, you can do it with two taps in the app. This [0] is the actual procedure to do it with printed out forms that have to be mailed to them, as documented by Deutsche Bahn. [0] https://int.bahn.de/en/contact/passengers-rights-claim-form https://int.bahn.de/en/contact/passengers-rights-claim-form In January this year DB cancelled all ICE trains one day because of ice (in winter, of all times), less than 1h before my departure time. Every other operator (TGV, Swiss SBB, smaller regional ones) was still running so I managed to get a combination of 3 other trains to get home 8h late. I had to mail those forms 3 times because they insisted "the replacement trains I used arrived on time so why am I asking for a refund". Eventually only refunded me the price of the new tickets after I threatened with a lawyer. No compensation for the lower quality of service though (direct ICE vs. 3 lower grade trains), for that I have to actually get a lawyer which costs more than what I can get back. Last evening Lufthansa cancelled my flight to Florence which was supposed to be tomorrow morning (so less than 48h notice). After almost 2h on multiple calls with them, many of which unexpectedly disconnected, I found out that they can look into options but there is no commitment on when they have to come back to me, and later that I can be rescheduled on a flight 2 days later. The compensation for this? Nobody knows anything, have to file a complaint. When I had a flight cancelled 1h before takeoff due to strike they scheduled me on a flight with 2 stops the next day. No compensation because it was one of the many strikes affecting Lufthansa. > You just have to know your rights. Why do you think there's a market for companies that recover your money from airlines in case of cancelled flights? Because rights mean nothing without power to enforce. If it requires a lawyer and a lot of chasing that costs money and time which you pay. So a lot of people will just give up. As an individual getting money from them is like getting blood from a stone. They increase the friction and delays to the max knowing that the absolute worst case scenario is they give you what you’re owed and nothing more. Best case you give up. Why is it that a person can go to prison for riding the bus with no ticket (repeatedly), or be prosecuted even if they paid the fine but the company gets to at most do its job?
- gaadd33 3y ago
  Why didn't EU261 apply to your flights? They seem like they should have qualified and you would have gotten a few hundred euros in addition to the new flight. There are a number of services which will pursue Lufthansa on your behalf for a part of the compensation you are awarded. Or is Lufthansa somehow exempt from EU261?
  - close04 3y ago
    > Why didn't EU261 apply to your flights? For the strike situation they are considered extraordinary circumstances and have a specific carveout that releases the company from the responsibility. For the regular cancelled flights, I have a long trail of evidence where with Lufthansa call center we got to the point of agreeing on the refund and providing the banking details, and then they went silent. Had to go to one of the companies helpfully doing the same for just 30% commission. Again, the strongest evidence that it's difficult to recover money from Lufthansa (airlines in general) is that there's a whole cottage industry of companies who exclusively deal with this. No customer would agree to pay 30+% recovery fee if the airlines were forthcoming with fulfilling their legal obligations.
- cedilla 3y ago
  I have filed dozens of these claims online and a few in the app. It's just not true that you have to mail them. Otherwise, I don't know what to tell you except that it's generally unproductive to mistake one's own bad experience for an objective insight into a system. The ombudsman for rail for one finds the claims management of DB satisfactory - even if they wish that the process was automatic where it can be.
  - close04 3y ago
    I find it baffling that you counter the actual link to the process as described by the company itself with unsupported words about your experience of doing it in some other way that somehow works. Even taking this at face value, still no word on how that applies to any of the many cases which don't involve the app. Then, even more bafflingly, you shoot down my personal experience and justify it with your own experience. Talk about unproductive and lack of insight. Am I the only one affected? [0] [1] [2] What do I do about a paper ticket bought outside of the app? What if I'm a foreigner just incidentally using the service? How about when, as per my example above, I bought tickets to TGV + SBB + regional line to replace the DB one which was cancelled and need a refund on those? Use the app right? > The ombudsman for rail for one finds the claims management of DB satisfactory The appeal to (pseudo)authority. Here's why that's not helpful: As per the article the German legal system puts people in jail for taking the bus without a ticket. So you say that's proof the practice is fine. The effort it takes to have your legal rights respected by these companies is the abuse that you find excuses for. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/20/trains-on-time-germans-deutsche-bahn-railway https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/20/trains-on-time... [1] https://www.deutschlandfunknova.de/beitrag/kritik-an-bahn-warum-die-deutsche-bahn-so-viele-probleme-hat https://www.deutschlandfunknova.de/beitrag/kritik-an-bahn-wa... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/xtpnkr/why_are_people_ok_with_deutsche_bahn_being_so/ https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/xtpnkr/why_are_peo...
josefx 3y ago
>You have been able to file the compensation claim online for at least a decade. Since a few years, you can do it with two taps in the app That isn't giving me back the weeks I loose each year to it. By now I travel a day early because I had 4 out of 4 trains fail on me repeatedly and I still risk getting stuck in the middle of nowhere after the last connecting train left. > There is compensation for monthly ticket holders, but it is capped at 50% of the ticket price. Unless they pay an "enhanced ticket price" that is a cheap cop out without consequence. > All that is very strictly enforced by the ministry. The ministry should enforce punctuality and not the cheap "trains that don't arrive at all aren't late" version the DB uses in its statistics.

close04 3y ago

What's not true? > You have been able to file the compensation claim online for at least a decade. Since a few years, you can do it with two taps in the app. This [0] is the actual procedure to do it with printed out forms that have to be mailed to them, as documented by Deutsche Bahn. [0] https://int.bahn.de/en/contact/passengers-rights-claim-form https://int.bahn.de/en/contact/passengers-rights-claim-form In January this year DB cancelled all ICE trains one day because of ice (in winter, of all times), less than 1h before my departure time. Every other operator (TGV, Swiss SBB, smaller regional ones) was still running so I managed to get a combination of 3 other trains to get home 8h late. I had to mail those forms 3 times because they insisted "the replacement trains I used arrived on time so why am I asking for a refund". Eventually only refunded me the price of the new tickets after I threatened with a lawyer. No compensation for the lower quality of service though (direct ICE vs. 3 lower grade trains), for that I have to actually get a lawyer which costs more than what I can get back. Last evening Lufthansa cancelled my flight to Florence which was supposed to be tomorrow morning (so less than 48h notice). After almost 2h on multiple calls with them, many of which unexpectedly disconnected, I found out that they can look into options but there is no commitment on when they have to come back to me, and later that I can be rescheduled on a flight 2 days later. The compensation for this? Nobody knows anything, have to file a complaint. When I had a flight cancelled 1h before takeoff due to strike they scheduled me on a flight with 2 stops the next day. No compensation because it was one of the many strikes affecting Lufthansa. > You just have to know your rights. Why do you think there's a market for companies that recover your money from airlines in case of cancelled flights? Because rights mean nothing without power to enforce. If it requires a lawyer and a lot of chasing that costs money and time which you pay. So a lot of people will just give up. As an individual getting money from them is like getting blood from a stone. They increase the friction and delays to the max knowing that the absolute worst case scenario is they give you what you’re owed and nothing more. Best case you give up. Why is it that a person can go to prison for riding the bus with no ticket (repeatedly), or be prosecuted even if they paid the fine but the company gets to at most do its job?

gaadd33 3y ago
Why didn't EU261 apply to your flights? They seem like they should have qualified and you would have gotten a few hundred euros in addition to the new flight. There are a number of services which will pursue Lufthansa on your behalf for a part of the compensation you are awarded. Or is Lufthansa somehow exempt from EU261?
- close04 3y ago
  > Why didn't EU261 apply to your flights? For the strike situation they are considered extraordinary circumstances and have a specific carveout that releases the company from the responsibility. For the regular cancelled flights, I have a long trail of evidence where with Lufthansa call center we got to the point of agreeing on the refund and providing the banking details, and then they went silent. Had to go to one of the companies helpfully doing the same for just 30% commission. Again, the strongest evidence that it's difficult to recover money from Lufthansa (airlines in general) is that there's a whole cottage industry of companies who exclusively deal with this. No customer would agree to pay 30+% recovery fee if the airlines were forthcoming with fulfilling their legal obligations.
cedilla 3y ago
I have filed dozens of these claims online and a few in the app. It's just not true that you have to mail them. Otherwise, I don't know what to tell you except that it's generally unproductive to mistake one's own bad experience for an objective insight into a system. The ombudsman for rail for one finds the claims management of DB satisfactory - even if they wish that the process was automatic where it can be.
- close04 3y ago
  I find it baffling that you counter the actual link to the process as described by the company itself with unsupported words about your experience of doing it in some other way that somehow works. Even taking this at face value, still no word on how that applies to any of the many cases which don't involve the app. Then, even more bafflingly, you shoot down my personal experience and justify it with your own experience. Talk about unproductive and lack of insight. Am I the only one affected? [0] [1] [2] What do I do about a paper ticket bought outside of the app? What if I'm a foreigner just incidentally using the service? How about when, as per my example above, I bought tickets to TGV + SBB + regional line to replace the DB one which was cancelled and need a refund on those? Use the app right? > The ombudsman for rail for one finds the claims management of DB satisfactory The appeal to (pseudo)authority. Here's why that's not helpful: As per the article the German legal system puts people in jail for taking the bus without a ticket. So you say that's proof the practice is fine. The effort it takes to have your legal rights respected by these companies is the abuse that you find excuses for. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/20/trains-on-time-germans-deutsche-bahn-railway https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/20/trains-on-time... [1] https://www.deutschlandfunknova.de/beitrag/kritik-an-bahn-warum-die-deutsche-bahn-so-viele-probleme-hat https://www.deutschlandfunknova.de/beitrag/kritik-an-bahn-wa... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/xtpnkr/why_are_people_ok_with_deutsche_bahn_being_so/ https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/xtpnkr/why_are_peo...

josefx 3y ago

>You have been able to file the compensation claim online for at least a decade. Since a few years, you can do it with two taps in the app That isn't giving me back the weeks I loose each year to it. By now I travel a day early because I had 4 out of 4 trains fail on me repeatedly and I still risk getting stuck in the middle of nowhere after the last connecting train left. > There is compensation for monthly ticket holders, but it is capped at 50% of the ticket price. Unless they pay an "enhanced ticket price" that is a cheap cop out without consequence. > All that is very strictly enforced by the ministry. The ministry should enforce punctuality and not the cheap "trains that don't arrive at all aren't late" version the DB uses in its statistics.