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> But the public transport companies take a harder line with serial offenders. They are the ones who are referred for prosecution, regardless of whether or not

> But the public transport companies take a harder line with serial offenders. They are the ones who are referred for prosecution, regardless of whether or not they've paid the penalty fare. Worth noting that in Germany the very same companies face 0 legal repercussions for the serial offense of not meeting their duties to the regular person, whether it's DB (the national railway operator), Lufthansa (national airline), or the local public transport systems. They repeatedly cancel trips without any compensation for ticket holders, and the default stance is that you have to chase them forever with forms sent via snail mail (!) even for the basic refund of the ticket, not even speaking of actual compensation. Or they will go on strike for days or weeks and have very low level of service or complete interruptions and in this case there is 0 recourse for any kind of refund even when a monthly public transport pass was 100+ EUR. Or the plane/train will be hours late costing you further expense, or the train stuck in the field for hours at a time due to malfunctions, they happen on a daily basis with 0 repercussions. They are literally allowed to repeatedly lie in the information to you during the resolution of such complaints and many times the only recourse is to involve a lawyer. The absolute worst that can happen to them in this situation is to have to fulfil their legal obligation (refund/compensation). There is no concept of anyone on that side being prosecuted for such things. At least with the new 50EUR Deutschlandticket people will suffer the same but for less money.

derelicta 3y ago
That's what happens when infrastructures are massively underfunded
kawhah 3y ago
I went to catch a cross-country train in Berlin and was surprised to find out that it had unexpectedly left ~30 minutes earlier than planned, something I have never experienced in any mode of transport in any country, ever. I wasn't notified even though DB had my email address from my booking of a seat on that particular train. I had to get a later train and buy new tickets for my connecting Thalys trains at considerable expense.
- mbirth 3y ago
  Are you sure that wasn’t the train from earlier leaving late?
  - kawhah 3y ago
    Absolutely sure. The conductor of the train I ended up boarding explained the situation and showed me the updated timetable on his phone.
cedilla 3y ago
That's just not true. You have been able to file the compensation claim online for at least a decade. Since a few years, you can do it with two taps in the app. There is compensation for monthly ticket holders, but it is capped at 50% of the ticket price. All that is very strictly enforced by the ministry. You just have to know your rights.
- close04 3y ago
  What's not true? > You have been able to file the compensation claim online for at least a decade. Since a few years, you can do it with two taps in the app. This [0] is the actual procedure to do it with printed out forms that have to be mailed to them, as documented by Deutsche Bahn. [0] https://int.bahn.de/en/contact/passengers-rights-claim-form https://int.bahn.de/en/contact/passengers-rights-claim-form In January this year DB cancelled all ICE trains one day because of ice (in winter, of all times), less than 1h before my departure time. Every other operator (TGV, Swiss SBB, smaller regional ones) was still running so I managed to get a combination of 3 other trains to get home 8h late. I had to mail those forms 3 times because they insisted "the replacement trains I used arrived on time so why am I asking for a refund". Eventually only refunded me the price of the new tickets after I threatened with a lawyer. No compensation for the lower quality of service though (direct ICE vs. 3 lower grade trains), for that I have to actually get a lawyer which costs more than what I can get back. Last evening Lufthansa cancelled my flight to Florence which was supposed to be tomorrow morning (so less than 48h notice). After almost 2h on multiple calls with them, many of which unexpectedly disconnected, I found out that they can look into options but there is no commitment on when they have to come back to me, and later that I can be rescheduled on a flight 2 days later. The compensation for this? Nobody knows anything, have to file a complaint. When I had a flight cancelled 1h before takeoff due to strike they scheduled me on a flight with 2 stops the next day. No compensation because it was one of the many strikes affecting Lufthansa. > You just have to know your rights. Why do you think there's a market for companies that recover your money from airlines in case of cancelled flights? Because rights mean nothing without power to enforce. If it requires a lawyer and a lot of chasing that costs money and time which you pay. So a lot of people will just give up. As an individual getting money from them is like getting blood from a stone. They increase the friction and delays to the max knowing that the absolute worst case scenario is they give you what you’re owed and nothing more. Best case you give up. Why is it that a person can go to prison for riding the bus with no ticket (repeatedly), or be prosecuted even if they paid the fine but the company gets to at most do its job?

derelicta 3y ago

That's what happens when infrastructures are massively underfunded

kawhah 3y ago

I went to catch a cross-country train in Berlin and was surprised to find out that it had unexpectedly left ~30 minutes earlier than planned, something I have never experienced in any mode of transport in any country, ever. I wasn't notified even though DB had my email address from my booking of a seat on that particular train. I had to get a later train and buy new tickets for my connecting Thalys trains at considerable expense.

mbirth 3y ago
Are you sure that wasn’t the train from earlier leaving late?
- kawhah 3y ago
  Absolutely sure. The conductor of the train I ended up boarding explained the situation and showed me the updated timetable on his phone.

cedilla 3y ago

That's just not true. You have been able to file the compensation claim online for at least a decade. Since a few years, you can do it with two taps in the app. There is compensation for monthly ticket holders, but it is capped at 50% of the ticket price. All that is very strictly enforced by the ministry. You just have to know your rights.

close04 3y ago
What's not true? > You have been able to file the compensation claim online for at least a decade. Since a few years, you can do it with two taps in the app. This [0] is the actual procedure to do it with printed out forms that have to be mailed to them, as documented by Deutsche Bahn. [0] https://int.bahn.de/en/contact/passengers-rights-claim-form https://int.bahn.de/en/contact/passengers-rights-claim-form In January this year DB cancelled all ICE trains one day because of ice (in winter, of all times), less than 1h before my departure time. Every other operator (TGV, Swiss SBB, smaller regional ones) was still running so I managed to get a combination of 3 other trains to get home 8h late. I had to mail those forms 3 times because they insisted "the replacement trains I used arrived on time so why am I asking for a refund". Eventually only refunded me the price of the new tickets after I threatened with a lawyer. No compensation for the lower quality of service though (direct ICE vs. 3 lower grade trains), for that I have to actually get a lawyer which costs more than what I can get back. Last evening Lufthansa cancelled my flight to Florence which was supposed to be tomorrow morning (so less than 48h notice). After almost 2h on multiple calls with them, many of which unexpectedly disconnected, I found out that they can look into options but there is no commitment on when they have to come back to me, and later that I can be rescheduled on a flight 2 days later. The compensation for this? Nobody knows anything, have to file a complaint. When I had a flight cancelled 1h before takeoff due to strike they scheduled me on a flight with 2 stops the next day. No compensation because it was one of the many strikes affecting Lufthansa. > You just have to know your rights. Why do you think there's a market for companies that recover your money from airlines in case of cancelled flights? Because rights mean nothing without power to enforce. If it requires a lawyer and a lot of chasing that costs money and time which you pay. So a lot of people will just give up. As an individual getting money from them is like getting blood from a stone. They increase the friction and delays to the max knowing that the absolute worst case scenario is they give you what you’re owed and nothing more. Best case you give up. Why is it that a person can go to prison for riding the bus with no ticket (repeatedly), or be prosecuted even if they paid the fine but the company gets to at most do its job?