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> That tension seems to inevitably lead to obvious features missing or functionality/knowledge that's needed to operate at any scale coistered away as closed so

by imiric 3y ago

> That tension seems to inevitably lead to obvious features missing or functionality/knowledge that's needed to operate at any scale coistered away as closed source so the sponsoring entity can make some money. This is not inevitable at all. You're right that there's a tension there, but there are companies that manage to do this right, and please both OSS and commercial users. The fact many companies don't is not an indication that this business model doesn't work, but that it's very hard to do correctly.

thinkmassive 3y ago
One of the main reasons to donate a project to a foundation, such as the Cloud Native Computing Foundation (CNCF), is to protect the community against this type of rugpull. A requirement for them to even consider adopting a project is that it isn’t under majority control of one single commercial entity. Do people honestly believe none of these projects compete with commercial solutions, or are they mostly oblivious these exist at all? https://www.cncf.io/projects/ https://www.cncf.io/projects/
- pjmlp 3y ago
  A better measurement would be how many of those projects are still relevant in 10 years from now.
  - thinkmassive 3y ago
    From today, or from when they first joined? Also consider that a project needs to not only have existed, but to already have an established track record of being vendor-neutral before it can join. Kubernetes joined CNCF on March 10, 2016. Prometheus joined May 9, 2016. In 2017, these 10 projects joined: - Linkerd - gRPC - CoreDNS - Containerd - rkt - CNI - Envoy - Jaeger - Notary - TUF Of those 12, only one (rkt) has been archived. Do you honestly believe the majority of these will be unsupported 10 years from now, let alone 10 years from when they were added (or started in the first place)?
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      Now remove the ones with FAANG funding.
      - thinkmassive 3y ago
        I’m not seeing the relevance. If you’re going to move the goalposts, you could at least explain why.
        pjmlp 3y ago
        The whole point that I failed to fully express on my sentence, was how many of those projects are still relevant in 10 years from now, without the funding of commercial entities.
nerdyadventurer 3y ago
> but there are companies that manage to do this right, and please both OSS and commercial users. Can you please elaborate, how companies doing right, do things?

by imiric 3y ago

thinkmassive 3y ago

One of the main reasons to donate a project to a foundation, such as the Cloud Native Computing Foundation (CNCF), is to protect the community against this type of rugpull. A requirement for them to even consider adopting a project is that it isn’t under majority control of one single commercial entity. Do people honestly believe none of these projects compete with commercial solutions, or are they mostly oblivious these exist at all? https://www.cncf.io/projects/ https://www.cncf.io/projects/

pjmlp 3y ago
A better measurement would be how many of those projects are still relevant in 10 years from now.
- thinkmassive 3y ago
  From today, or from when they first joined? Also consider that a project needs to not only have existed, but to already have an established track record of being vendor-neutral before it can join. Kubernetes joined CNCF on March 10, 2016. Prometheus joined May 9, 2016. In 2017, these 10 projects joined: - Linkerd - gRPC - CoreDNS - Containerd - rkt - CNI - Envoy - Jaeger - Notary - TUF Of those 12, only one (rkt) has been archived. Do you honestly believe the majority of these will be unsupported 10 years from now, let alone 10 years from when they were added (or started in the first place)?
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    Now remove the ones with FAANG funding.
    - thinkmassive 3y ago
      I’m not seeing the relevance. If you’re going to move the goalposts, you could at least explain why.
      - pjmlp 3y ago
        The whole point that I failed to fully express on my sentence, was how many of those projects are still relevant in 10 years from now, without the funding of commercial entities.

nerdyadventurer 3y ago

> but there are companies that manage to do this right, and please both OSS and commercial users. Can you please elaborate, how companies doing right, do things?