5 ms·

I guess the choice is between single output big hdmi vs. two small. I'd prefer a single big one but don't care too much either way, you don't get new cables, y

by tjoff 3y ago

I guess the choice is between single output big hdmi vs. two small. I'd prefer a single big one but don't care too much either way, you don't get new cables, you get an adapter. Much more concerned about the micro-sd slot. Biggest mistake and hassle of all the Pis.

undersuit 3y ago
One Word: DisplayPort. MicroSD is a pain but it very easy to switch to much faster(OR SLOWER) USB flash drives. eMMC programming would be an unnecessary pain for the non Compute Module users.
- tjoff 3y ago
  Since TVs are one of the primary use-cases for these that isn't ideal either. USB flash drives suck too. And high-quality ones are almost always bulky. But doesn't matter, they still mostly suck. And no, there is absolutely nothing in the world of Pi that is as unnecessary and has so much suffering as the use of sd-card brings. Program via usb-stick, everyone has one. More people than have sd-cards for sure. Or have both.
  - undersuit 3y ago
    > USB flash drives suck too. USB Flash Drives can suck, just like there are good SDcards. >And high-quality ones are almost always bulky. Yeah, but have you ever run a Pi off a good SSD over USB3? Very nice. And eMMC can be bulky too, I'm so scared to dremel this plexi so that the case doesn't crush this IC, marked by blue: https://imgur.com/VQNV7Bp https://imgur.com/VQNV7Bp Relatedly wouldn't it suck for the RPi5 to introduce another breaking design to the case ecosystem for the minority group that is already served by the Compute Module?
    - tjoff 3y ago
      I doubt there are good SD-cards for this use case. And finding a good flash drive can be really hard. Minority group? Given the target audience I'd say we are talking about the absolute majority.
      - undersuit 3y ago
        No, eMMC is a minority. Do you even Netboot?
        tjoff 3y ago
        Of course it is, since it isn't offered.
        undersuit 3y ago
        It is offered, on the Compute Module.
        tjoff 3y ago
        ... which is not a mainstream device.
eternityforest 3y ago
The microSD slot is one of my favorite features on the Pi. It's so easy to manage configurations, you can write the system to a new card, swap, and even nontechnical people can swap back if needed, and it's all cheap. If it were up to me, Android phones might be doing the same thing, SD as primary storage, with an OS that was optimized for write cycle preservation. It's just so convenient, simple, and obvious. I don't want the Pi to try to replace desktops, because it's not going to. I've already got a laptop, I don't need any more bandwidth. I would prefer it if they added a small capacitor that could carry the SD card though it's internal FTL business on sudden power loss, that could ensure the SD always has power until at least a few ms after the last access. But I'm not sure if that's actually the problem. I just use a script to reduce disk writes(Mounting tmpfses, etc).
- tjoff 3y ago
  I don't care about bandwidth, everything you need should fit in ram anyway. Reliability is the only thing I care about. And you can't have that with sd-cards.
  - tjoff 3y ago
    For the Pi5 you could use the m2 hat and an m2. Which seems to come in at a total cost of, guessing, maybe $25 or something. If that works well (which it should?) that is an absolute nobrainer and game-changer for reability alone.
  - eternityforest 3y ago
    Are you running Home Assistant or a DVR or both? Or something with Chromium as digital signage, without putting all it's profile folder crap in RAM? I've never had a reliability issue with SD cards, I've even seen other people set up stuff on no name cards that run for years, but I keep seeing posts about them on HA boards. Plus now there are industrial-ish microSD cards for similar or less cost than other kinds of storage.
    - tjoff 3y ago
      If you treat it as read-only, then yes, sd-cards work fine. But setting that up can be a hassle depending on the project, and completely out of character for what the raspberry is. But that is what I do, because you can't use the Pi reliably if you don't (or if you fiddle with external storage). And that is a serious limitation and something that the majority of Pi users don't. And thus endless suffering. It is not in the same ballpark as "easy to manage configuration". And many applications require that you write to storage at least some of the time. Such as HA. And in turn you must use external storage.
consp 3y ago
Why is the micro sd a problem? It was there on the early pi (as a normal sized SD slot) since it was cheap, easy to implement and widely available. And the chips could not boot off usb so there was that. These days I guess it is mostly for legacy purposes and the pi can boot of usb anyway if you don't want to bother with it.

by tjoff 3y ago

undersuit 3y ago

One Word: DisplayPort. MicroSD is a pain but it very easy to switch to much faster(OR SLOWER) USB flash drives. eMMC programming would be an unnecessary pain for the non Compute Module users.

tjoff 3y ago
Since TVs are one of the primary use-cases for these that isn't ideal either. USB flash drives suck too. And high-quality ones are almost always bulky. But doesn't matter, they still mostly suck. And no, there is absolutely nothing in the world of Pi that is as unnecessary and has so much suffering as the use of sd-card brings. Program via usb-stick, everyone has one. More people than have sd-cards for sure. Or have both.
- undersuit 3y ago
  > USB flash drives suck too. USB Flash Drives can suck, just like there are good SDcards. >And high-quality ones are almost always bulky. Yeah, but have you ever run a Pi off a good SSD over USB3? Very nice. And eMMC can be bulky too, I'm so scared to dremel this plexi so that the case doesn't crush this IC, marked by blue: https://imgur.com/VQNV7Bp https://imgur.com/VQNV7Bp Relatedly wouldn't it suck for the RPi5 to introduce another breaking design to the case ecosystem for the minority group that is already served by the Compute Module?
  - tjoff 3y ago
    I doubt there are good SD-cards for this use case. And finding a good flash drive can be really hard. Minority group? Given the target audience I'd say we are talking about the absolute majority.
    - undersuit 3y ago
      No, eMMC is a minority. Do you even Netboot?
      - tjoff 3y ago
        Of course it is, since it isn't offered.
        undersuit 3y ago
        It is offered, on the Compute Module.
        tjoff 3y ago
        ... which is not a mainstream device.

eternityforest 3y ago

The microSD slot is one of my favorite features on the Pi. It's so easy to manage configurations, you can write the system to a new card, swap, and even nontechnical people can swap back if needed, and it's all cheap. If it were up to me, Android phones might be doing the same thing, SD as primary storage, with an OS that was optimized for write cycle preservation. It's just so convenient, simple, and obvious. I don't want the Pi to try to replace desktops, because it's not going to. I've already got a laptop, I don't need any more bandwidth. I would prefer it if they added a small capacitor that could carry the SD card though it's internal FTL business on sudden power loss, that could ensure the SD always has power until at least a few ms after the last access. But I'm not sure if that's actually the problem. I just use a script to reduce disk writes(Mounting tmpfses, etc).

tjoff 3y ago
I don't care about bandwidth, everything you need should fit in ram anyway. Reliability is the only thing I care about. And you can't have that with sd-cards.
- tjoff 3y ago
  For the Pi5 you could use the m2 hat and an m2. Which seems to come in at a total cost of, guessing, maybe $25 or something. If that works well (which it should?) that is an absolute nobrainer and game-changer for reability alone.
- eternityforest 3y ago
  Are you running Home Assistant or a DVR or both? Or something with Chromium as digital signage, without putting all it's profile folder crap in RAM? I've never had a reliability issue with SD cards, I've even seen other people set up stuff on no name cards that run for years, but I keep seeing posts about them on HA boards. Plus now there are industrial-ish microSD cards for similar or less cost than other kinds of storage.
  - tjoff 3y ago
    If you treat it as read-only, then yes, sd-cards work fine. But setting that up can be a hassle depending on the project, and completely out of character for what the raspberry is. But that is what I do, because you can't use the Pi reliably if you don't (or if you fiddle with external storage). And that is a serious limitation and something that the majority of Pi users don't. And thus endless suffering. It is not in the same ballpark as "easy to manage configuration". And many applications require that you write to storage at least some of the time. Such as HA. And in turn you must use external storage.

consp 3y ago

Why is the micro sd a problem? It was there on the early pi (as a normal sized SD slot) since it was cheap, easy to implement and widely available. And the chips could not boot off usb so there was that. These days I guess it is mostly for legacy purposes and the pi can boot of usb anyway if you don't want to bother with it.