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That’s helpful. Broadly speaking, as a developer you should expect that none of your users will have disabled those protections and your release plan should ha

That’s helpful. Broadly speaking, as a developer you should expect that none of your users will have disabled those protections and your release plan should have notarizing as a step. Asking users to disable system protection, or at the very least fiddle with system settings is a non-starter.

scarface_74 3y ago
Even if a company wasn’t being purposefully malicious, shit happens. https://support.google.com/chrome/thread/15235262/chrome-update-impacts-some-macos-systems?hl=en https://support.google.com/chrome/thread/15235262/chrome-upd... And Apple isn’t immune either. There was a bug in the iTunes installer where it would erase files if there was a space in the name of the hard drive. Then some companies are just evil. https://www.zdnet.com/article/zoom-defends-use-of-local-web-server-on-macs-after-security-report/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/zoom-defends-use-of-local-web-...
grishka 3y ago
> as a developer you should expect that none of your users will have disabled those protections and your release plan should have notarizing as a step. I don't want to spend $99/year for the rest of eternity for the privilege of having a slightly less scary warning when my users run my app for the first time. Thus, the readme for the one macOS app I made that has gained a bit of popularity instructs users to right-click, then select "open". Works reasonably well so far. I would absolutely have embraced notarization if it was offered for free. Otherwise it feels like straight up extortion.
- FpUser 3y ago
  >"Otherwise it feels like straight up extortion." Which it is
- jeroenhd 3y ago
  Apple is probably lucky that so few people use Macs, because the EU would have a field day with this notarization bullshit if they'd managed to get a 10% market share on computers.
  - kanbara 3y ago
    how is it bullshit? windows is/was laden with malware, requiring antivirus, just full of crap for decades.
    - olyjohn 3y ago
      Yeah and Macs didn't have that problem back before signing apps was a requirement either.
    - jeroenhd 3y ago
      Agreed, and during those decades legislation and execution thereof sorely lacked. Now in the DMA/DSA times, things are different. It took them a couple of decades, but the EU is starting to take action.
  - grishka 3y ago
    Yet somehow, Windows 10 and 11 are dripping with contempt for the user, but the EU still hasn't acknowledged that as an antitrust problem worth investigating. Their insistence on pushing users into Edge alone should be enough IMO. Stuff like Edge "accidentally" opening on startup and some links "accidentally" opening in Edge instead of your default browser and your default browser setting getting "accidentally" reset to Edge and the taskbar shortcut for Edge "accidentally" reappearing.
    - TerrifiedMouse 3y ago
      The EU seem pretty soft on Microsoft these days. The Activision-Blizzard buy out when off without a hitch in the EU.
    - balls187 3y ago
      Since Edge is built ontop of Chromium and it is a distant 2nd to Google’s Chrome would that trigger EU compliance issues?
      - grishka 3y ago
- balls187 3y ago
  Is it $99/year regardless of local cost of living? In that sense yes that is understandable. As an American developer, $99/year is something I can afford, can write off as a business expense, and hopefully make back with software proceeds. It should be noted, keeping the bar annoying but not prohibitive with a token fee does cut down on both junk submissions and malware.
  - grishka 3y ago
    Play Store account cost me $25 as a one-time fee and that does the job of keeping the junk out just fine. There's no good reason why it has to be a recurring payment. > can write off as a business expense, and hopefully make back with software proceeds. That's if your software involves money. Mine doesn't — it's all pure altruism. I just want to put my stuff out there for other people who might want it.
    - ticoombs 3y ago
      Are you also on F-Droid?
- corbezzoli 3y ago
  > the privilege of having a slightly less scary warning That’s what you see. Users see it differently. I’m not running random exes on my computer. Even package managers are run in containers and VMs

scarface_74 3y ago

Even if a company wasn’t being purposefully malicious, shit happens. https://support.google.com/chrome/thread/15235262/chrome-update-impacts-some-macos-systems?hl=en https://support.google.com/chrome/thread/15235262/chrome-upd... And Apple isn’t immune either. There was a bug in the iTunes installer where it would erase files if there was a space in the name of the hard drive. Then some companies are just evil. https://www.zdnet.com/article/zoom-defends-use-of-local-web-server-on-macs-after-security-report/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/zoom-defends-use-of-local-web-...

grishka 3y ago

> as a developer you should expect that none of your users will have disabled those protections and your release plan should have notarizing as a step. I don't want to spend $99/year for the rest of eternity for the privilege of having a slightly less scary warning when my users run my app for the first time. Thus, the readme for the one macOS app I made that has gained a bit of popularity instructs users to right-click, then select "open". Works reasonably well so far. I would absolutely have embraced notarization if it was offered for free. Otherwise it feels like straight up extortion.

FpUser 3y ago
>"Otherwise it feels like straight up extortion." Which it is
jeroenhd 3y ago
Apple is probably lucky that so few people use Macs, because the EU would have a field day with this notarization bullshit if they'd managed to get a 10% market share on computers.
- kanbara 3y ago
  how is it bullshit? windows is/was laden with malware, requiring antivirus, just full of crap for decades.
  - olyjohn 3y ago
    Yeah and Macs didn't have that problem back before signing apps was a requirement either.
  - jeroenhd 3y ago
    Agreed, and during those decades legislation and execution thereof sorely lacked. Now in the DMA/DSA times, things are different. It took them a couple of decades, but the EU is starting to take action.
- grishka 3y ago
  Yet somehow, Windows 10 and 11 are dripping with contempt for the user, but the EU still hasn't acknowledged that as an antitrust problem worth investigating. Their insistence on pushing users into Edge alone should be enough IMO. Stuff like Edge "accidentally" opening on startup and some links "accidentally" opening in Edge instead of your default browser and your default browser setting getting "accidentally" reset to Edge and the taskbar shortcut for Edge "accidentally" reappearing.
  - TerrifiedMouse 3y ago
    The EU seem pretty soft on Microsoft these days. The Activision-Blizzard buy out when off without a hitch in the EU.
  - balls187 3y ago
    Since Edge is built ontop of Chromium and it is a distant 2nd to Google’s Chrome would that trigger EU compliance issues?
    - grishka 3y ago
balls187 3y ago
Is it $99/year regardless of local cost of living? In that sense yes that is understandable. As an American developer, $99/year is something I can afford, can write off as a business expense, and hopefully make back with software proceeds. It should be noted, keeping the bar annoying but not prohibitive with a token fee does cut down on both junk submissions and malware.
- grishka 3y ago
  Play Store account cost me $25 as a one-time fee and that does the job of keeping the junk out just fine. There's no good reason why it has to be a recurring payment. > can write off as a business expense, and hopefully make back with software proceeds. That's if your software involves money. Mine doesn't — it's all pure altruism. I just want to put my stuff out there for other people who might want it.
  - ticoombs 3y ago
    Are you also on F-Droid?
corbezzoli 3y ago
> the privilege of having a slightly less scary warning That’s what you see. Users see it differently. I’m not running random exes on my computer. Even package managers are run in containers and VMs