6 ms·

Modern usage is a misnomer. When invoked with --help, help is the result of the program.

benatkin 3y ago
I disagree, the program's purpose isn't to show the help. Asking directly for help is one of the things in the path to getting desired output, along with getting an error. If you're following such and such standards that says it should go to stdout, it should go to stdout though. I don't take that as a given. I agree with this remaining open after all of these years: https://github.com/commandlineparser/commandline/issues/399 https://github.com/commandlineparser/commandline/issues/399 OP should add 2>&1 before the pipe or replace the pipe with |& (bash) or &| (fish)
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37683629 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37683629> <https://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/html_node/_002d_002dhelp.html https://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/html_node/_002d_002dhelp....> Contradicts your argument.
  - benatkin 3y ago
    Your reply doesn't take into account the second paragraph of my comment.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- xigoi 3y ago
  When invoked with --help, the program's purpose is to show the help.
- sph 3y ago
  > If you're following such and such standards that says it should go to stdout, it should go to stdout though. I don't take that as a given. This is being pedantic. If 99% of programs operate a certain way (GNU coreutils or their BSD equivalent), while not dogma, it becomes convention. You need a good reason to break convention than whatever rationalisation you seem to have against it. The comment in the linked github issue does not present any advantage to using stderr (lack of buffering, really?) yet they completely ignore convention. Quit being fancy, be a good GNU/BSD citizen.
ImaCake 3y ago
Bingo. The arguments for making unix harder than it has to be by sending help to stderr when the user has asked for it is the kind of stuff that gives linux it’s bad reputation.
- School-Cotton 3y ago
  AFAIK all standard tools on typical Linux distributions send help to stdout when it’s been asked for, and to stderr when it’s a response to a malformed command. Third parties can make their software do whatever they want, but that’s hardly “Linux”’s fault.

I disagree, the program's purpose isn't to show the help. Asking directly for help is one of the things in the path to getting desired output, along with getting an error. If you're following such and such standards that says it should go to stdout, it should go to stdout though. I don't take that as a given. I agree with this remaining open after all of these years: https://github.com/commandlineparser/commandline/issues/399 https://github.com/commandlineparser/commandline/issues/399 OP should add 2>&1 before the pipe or replace the pipe with |& (bash) or &| (fish)

dredmorbius 3y ago
<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37683629 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37683629> <https://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/html_node/_002d_002dhelp.html https://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/html_node/_002d_002dhelp....> Contradicts your argument.
- benatkin 3y ago
  Your reply doesn't take into account the second paragraph of my comment.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
xigoi 3y ago
When invoked with --help, the program's purpose is to show the help.
sph 3y ago
> If you're following such and such standards that says it should go to stdout, it should go to stdout though. I don't take that as a given. This is being pedantic. If 99% of programs operate a certain way (GNU coreutils or their BSD equivalent), while not dogma, it becomes convention. You need a good reason to break convention than whatever rationalisation you seem to have against it. The comment in the linked github issue does not present any advantage to using stderr (lack of buffering, really?) yet they completely ignore convention. Quit being fancy, be a good GNU/BSD citizen.

ImaCake 3y ago

Bingo. The arguments for making unix harder than it has to be by sending help to stderr when the user has asked for it is the kind of stuff that gives linux it’s bad reputation.

School-Cotton 3y ago
AFAIK all standard tools on typical Linux distributions send help to stdout when it’s been asked for, and to stderr when it’s a response to a malformed command. Third parties can make their software do whatever they want, but that’s hardly “Linux”’s fault.