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Why does paying for one thing entitle you to own another? You didn’t give me a laptop. You are giving me a tool contingent upon employment. If I leave the comp

Why does paying for one thing entitle you to own another? You didn’t give me a laptop. You are giving me a tool contingent upon employment. If I leave the company, you take it back. What am I supposed to be grateful for? Should a janitor thank their employer for a rolling trash can and mop? Training? My teachers and mentors have literally no rights to anything I’ve filmed and edited. That would be ridiculous. Lawyers and accountants are for you and your company. That is not a gift to me. I cannot just call them for my own personal use at will. They only exist for the company and company purposes. Chances are I will literally never talk to them no matter how long I work for your company. Marketing benefits you. Why does marketing benefit me at all? They aren’t doing anything for me. They aren’t building my brand and creating an image for me. They’re doing it for you and your company. They’re driving revenue for you.

caminante 3y ago
Your first paragraph calls into question universal contract law/rights...? I don't know how you reconcile that with signing everyday contracts as I'm sure you do. As for your other premises, I don't know how you can make such general claims, given endless exceptions.
- Forgeties79 3y ago
  > Your first paragraph calls into question universal contract law/rights...? I was a freelancer/production house owner for over a decade, I am very confused what you mean by this - I have no idea what you are referring to. A contract is only what is mutually agreed upon by all parties involved. Either way, I have never signed a contract with anyone that entitled them to my work outside of the scope as dictated by the contract. What you get from me is clear in our contract or it isn’t yous. No one is entitled to anything I shoot or edit unless they explicitly paid for it. Likewise, my shooters only ever gave me what was negotiated explicitly. If that is not explicitly stated, there is no assumption they get the rights to anything I shoot or vice versa. Go call a wedding photographer and ask for all the raws from their shoot after the fact. They’ll laugh until you hang up.
  - caminante 3y ago
    > I am very confused what you mean by this - I have no idea what you are referring to. You asked how does paying for one thing entitle you to another thing. You're referencing my comment about supplying resources in exchange for any IP you create, contractually. I described common contractual terms and you reacted surprised. It appears you lost the context. I'd be very curious how you structured employment agreements for your employees (if any) -- not independent contractors.
    - Forgeties79 3y ago
      There isn’t a production studio on the planet that owns the rights to what you shoot when you aren’t explicitly shooting for them. Independent contractors or not. Their teaching you and providing employment is immaterial. Hell even if they use company hardware as long as they get permission. If i go joyride behind the company’s back sure, there’s a discussion potentially because i violated the rules and jacked company property. But even then…hardly legally enforceable to claim they own the rights and not super applicable since it depends on someone effectively stealing gear to shoot.
      - caminante 3y ago
        The root parent here said signing away your IP to your employer is "wrong." I said that's too general. Now, you're agreeing with me in saying using gear without permission or using company gear away from intended use is wrong. As for your blanket statement re: copyright ownership and transfer of rights, it's simply not true to say independent contractors or employees don't sign over all of their creative products in instances. I note how you're also conflating freelance and full/part-time employees. You have no idea what you're talking about.
        Forgeties79 3y ago
        > You have no idea what you're talking about. If this is how we’re going to discuss this then I’ll just head out now. I have no idea what I’m talking about apparently so it’s not like you’re going to give my points or experience the time of day. Have a good one.

caminante 3y ago

Your first paragraph calls into question universal contract law/rights...? I don't know how you reconcile that with signing everyday contracts as I'm sure you do. As for your other premises, I don't know how you can make such general claims, given endless exceptions.

Forgeties79 3y ago
> Your first paragraph calls into question universal contract law/rights...? I was a freelancer/production house owner for over a decade, I am very confused what you mean by this - I have no idea what you are referring to. A contract is only what is mutually agreed upon by all parties involved. Either way, I have never signed a contract with anyone that entitled them to my work outside of the scope as dictated by the contract. What you get from me is clear in our contract or it isn’t yous. No one is entitled to anything I shoot or edit unless they explicitly paid for it. Likewise, my shooters only ever gave me what was negotiated explicitly. If that is not explicitly stated, there is no assumption they get the rights to anything I shoot or vice versa. Go call a wedding photographer and ask for all the raws from their shoot after the fact. They’ll laugh until you hang up.
- caminante 3y ago
  > I am very confused what you mean by this - I have no idea what you are referring to. You asked how does paying for one thing entitle you to another thing. You're referencing my comment about supplying resources in exchange for any IP you create, contractually. I described common contractual terms and you reacted surprised. It appears you lost the context. I'd be very curious how you structured employment agreements for your employees (if any) -- not independent contractors.
  - Forgeties79 3y ago
    There isn’t a production studio on the planet that owns the rights to what you shoot when you aren’t explicitly shooting for them. Independent contractors or not. Their teaching you and providing employment is immaterial. Hell even if they use company hardware as long as they get permission. If i go joyride behind the company’s back sure, there’s a discussion potentially because i violated the rules and jacked company property. But even then…hardly legally enforceable to claim they own the rights and not super applicable since it depends on someone effectively stealing gear to shoot.
    - caminante 3y ago
      The root parent here said signing away your IP to your employer is "wrong." I said that's too general. Now, you're agreeing with me in saying using gear without permission or using company gear away from intended use is wrong. As for your blanket statement re: copyright ownership and transfer of rights, it's simply not true to say independent contractors or employees don't sign over all of their creative products in instances. I note how you're also conflating freelance and full/part-time employees. You have no idea what you're talking about.
      - Forgeties79 3y ago
        > You have no idea what you're talking about. If this is how we’re going to discuss this then I’ll just head out now. I have no idea what I’m talking about apparently so it’s not like you’re going to give my points or experience the time of day. Have a good one.