6 ms·

My plan is to just leave the US for somewhere with a real social safety net at some point. I don't believe the US can turn things around at this point, there's

by diob 3y ago

My plan is to just leave the US for somewhere with a real social safety net at some point. I don't believe the US can turn things around at this point, there's just too much "tech debt" so to speak.

UncleOxidant 3y ago
> My plan is to just leave the US for somewhere with a real social safety net at some point This is a lot easier said than done. Sure you could move to Canada (for example) but better do it before you get over a certain age and you have to demonstrate that you have a certain net worth. If a lot of Americans decide to start leaving that's only going to make it harder to emigrate to other places.
- nebula8804 3y ago
  Leaving the US is funny, its like a ex that won't stop calling and harassing you. The US wants its taxes first before any other country collects. If you try to permanently sever ties, its a long expensive process.
  - latency-guy2 3y ago
    Tax liability only matters for people who make tons of money. Further, chances are you are not going to Burma, and rather going to another western country, and in those cases you are going to a country that has a tax treatises/agreements with the US in some form. FEIE as an example is a deduction that currently goes for around the first ~$120k you earn, you also have your standard deduction. This only applies if you have spent at least 11 months in another country. Then there's housing, foreign tax credit, and so on. In reality, most expats who earn any sort of income pay $0 to US. The only requirement is that you file every year, like all citizens to the US. Double dipping, like you're alluding to pretty much does not happen much. Relinquishing citizenship has a fee of $2350 minimum attached to it, which is hefty, but if you're giving up your citizenship, chances are that the bill is paltry compared to your supposed other benefits.
    - mus1cfl0w 3y ago
      You’re right to some extent but are omitting the potentially hefty exit tax depending on your net worth/income, see https://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/knowledge-center/exit-taxes-us/# https://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/knowledge-center/exit-t...
- switchbak 3y ago
  Grass is always greener I suppose. I look at the real tax rate and earning potential of Americans vs Canadians, and it's tough to make a case for coming to Canada. I guess if you like maple syrup and curling.
- hotnfresh 3y ago
  Can confirm, I did not find my dream of keeping a high-paying-by-Canadian-standards US remote job and moving my family to Canada so we could pay taxes there, spend our money there, and my kids (they actually give you a boost on immigration score!) could grow up to contribute to the Canadian economy, to be achievable. I’d have had to find a Canadian employer first to have a chance, which would mean a 40-60% pay cut (and I ain’t making FAANG money) and probably giving up remote, on top of it. Getting in’s not easy, not sure how all the obviously-first-gen immigrants working as e.g. taxi drivers in Canada got in. All refugees, maybe? Spouse had a points-granting technical degree and landed a Canadian job in that field before immigrating? They’re secretly famous artists or brain surgeons (special immigration categories) and just moonlighting for fun? Unclear.
  - booleandilemma 3y ago
    I wonder if the Canadian government is secretly planning for a mass influx of American refugees hopping the border at some point in the future. That would be kind of ironic.
nebula8804 3y ago
Where would you go? Isn't inflation much worse in most of Western Europe? Money is probably pouring into the US dollar because of lost confidence in other currencies. If those countries don't turn things around eventually, then will the safety net even survive your lifetime? Does SE Asia have any safety net?
- astrange 3y ago
  No, Asian countries have less of a safety net than the US even. They do have cheaper healthcare and housing. (But after you've bought the housing then you want it to become less cheap, of course.)
- tempsy 3y ago
  I think the general strategy is to build wealth in the US on a US salary and then move to a cheaper COL location elsewhere. Was in Europe this summer. Even if inflation is comparable or worse everything was still far cheaper than the US.
  - nebula8804 3y ago
    Tons of people did that before the pandemic and moved to cheap places like Portugal, Spain, and Italy. Now those places are expensive, they are still broke (so the safety net might still go away in your lifetime), but also now the locals are hopping mad that all these 'expats' are coming and driving up real estate prices.
    - tempsy 3y ago
      It's more expensive but eating out is nothing like the US. Got 2 euro coffees and croissant combos in Spain all summer. Especially since tipping 20% is not expected.
      - nebula8804 3y ago
        When I mean by "they are still broke" I meant governments that have to provide the safety nets. And what I meant by "expensive" was more things like real estate prices. Sorry for the confusion.

by diob 3y ago

My plan is to just leave the US for somewhere with a real social safety net at some point. I don't believe the US can turn things around at this point, there's just too much "tech debt" so to speak.

UncleOxidant 3y ago

> My plan is to just leave the US for somewhere with a real social safety net at some point This is a lot easier said than done. Sure you could move to Canada (for example) but better do it before you get over a certain age and you have to demonstrate that you have a certain net worth. If a lot of Americans decide to start leaving that's only going to make it harder to emigrate to other places.

nebula8804 3y ago
Leaving the US is funny, its like a ex that won't stop calling and harassing you. The US wants its taxes first before any other country collects. If you try to permanently sever ties, its a long expensive process.
- latency-guy2 3y ago
  Tax liability only matters for people who make tons of money. Further, chances are you are not going to Burma, and rather going to another western country, and in those cases you are going to a country that has a tax treatises/agreements with the US in some form. FEIE as an example is a deduction that currently goes for around the first ~$120k you earn, you also have your standard deduction. This only applies if you have spent at least 11 months in another country. Then there's housing, foreign tax credit, and so on. In reality, most expats who earn any sort of income pay $0 to US. The only requirement is that you file every year, like all citizens to the US. Double dipping, like you're alluding to pretty much does not happen much. Relinquishing citizenship has a fee of $2350 minimum attached to it, which is hefty, but if you're giving up your citizenship, chances are that the bill is paltry compared to your supposed other benefits.
  - mus1cfl0w 3y ago
    You’re right to some extent but are omitting the potentially hefty exit tax depending on your net worth/income, see https://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/knowledge-center/exit-taxes-us/# https://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/knowledge-center/exit-t...
switchbak 3y ago
Grass is always greener I suppose. I look at the real tax rate and earning potential of Americans vs Canadians, and it's tough to make a case for coming to Canada. I guess if you like maple syrup and curling.
hotnfresh 3y ago
Can confirm, I did not find my dream of keeping a high-paying-by-Canadian-standards US remote job and moving my family to Canada so we could pay taxes there, spend our money there, and my kids (they actually give you a boost on immigration score!) could grow up to contribute to the Canadian economy, to be achievable. I’d have had to find a Canadian employer first to have a chance, which would mean a 40-60% pay cut (and I ain’t making FAANG money) and probably giving up remote, on top of it. Getting in’s not easy, not sure how all the obviously-first-gen immigrants working as e.g. taxi drivers in Canada got in. All refugees, maybe? Spouse had a points-granting technical degree and landed a Canadian job in that field before immigrating? They’re secretly famous artists or brain surgeons (special immigration categories) and just moonlighting for fun? Unclear.
- booleandilemma 3y ago
  I wonder if the Canadian government is secretly planning for a mass influx of American refugees hopping the border at some point in the future. That would be kind of ironic.

nebula8804 3y ago

Where would you go? Isn't inflation much worse in most of Western Europe? Money is probably pouring into the US dollar because of lost confidence in other currencies. If those countries don't turn things around eventually, then will the safety net even survive your lifetime? Does SE Asia have any safety net?

astrange 3y ago
No, Asian countries have less of a safety net than the US even. They do have cheaper healthcare and housing. (But after you've bought the housing then you want it to become less cheap, of course.)
tempsy 3y ago
I think the general strategy is to build wealth in the US on a US salary and then move to a cheaper COL location elsewhere. Was in Europe this summer. Even if inflation is comparable or worse everything was still far cheaper than the US.
- nebula8804 3y ago
  Tons of people did that before the pandemic and moved to cheap places like Portugal, Spain, and Italy. Now those places are expensive, they are still broke (so the safety net might still go away in your lifetime), but also now the locals are hopping mad that all these 'expats' are coming and driving up real estate prices.
  - tempsy 3y ago
    It's more expensive but eating out is nothing like the US. Got 2 euro coffees and croissant combos in Spain all summer. Especially since tipping 20% is not expected.
    - nebula8804 3y ago
      When I mean by "they are still broke" I meant governments that have to provide the safety nets. And what I meant by "expensive" was more things like real estate prices. Sorry for the confusion.