3 ms·

I don't understand why the act of not taking a small patch should be interpreted in such a personally insulting way. It sounds like you are just trying pour oi

by hnfong 3y ago

I don't understand why the act of not taking a small patch should be interpreted in such a personally insulting way. It sounds like you are just trying pour oil on a fire. Would you prefer to live in a world where people are obliged to spend extra time dealing with easily-broken egos because all non-overtly-friendly acts can and will be interpreted as contempt? I personally rather assume people are well intentioned, and let them focus on fixing problems instead of catering to egos. Or maybe you like playing the ego game. That's fine, but I'm really honestly questioning my assumptions towards humanity in the discussion here. Do people really think I view them in contempt if I don't write a couple paragraphs of words to sooth their egos after I disagree with them?

bayindirh 3y ago
Because it's not about not accepting the patch. I'm not there. It's about the style. About the oil: I'm not that kind of person. I'm just defending what I'm thinking right. Also, I know about oil burns. That's something I'd never wish on my enemy. One doesn't need to be overly, or overtly friendly, or to write long fluffy sentences to come across as kind. It's about the word choice yes, but not in the straightforward way we are wired to think. It's something more subtle. I write many e-mails every day, talking with people from many nations, at every level in many projects. Some of these mails are novellas, some of them are four word bursts. Yet regardless of the length of the mail, I can convey the tone I want, and people understand that. Sometimes I need to say no to people, and I say it directly. Sometimes I thank them sincerely. Rarely I write hard/heavy mails, which is something I hate to do (and I don't use the word lightly), but without any strong words, and they go through too. Being kind is not playing the ego game, and doesn't need extra time. What is wrong is thinking that you can throw words and/or people around just because you don't see their faces, don't like how they name the variables, or you think you can say anything because you're a nerd/geek/hacker/whatever and these features or adjectives give you license to push people around. Lastly, I think soft-skills are way more important in development communities, because your projects' life-span is measured with the health of the community supporting it. Gate-keeping, elitism, and similar acts slowly but surely damages a community. We should strive to be better humans first. Coding is easy. Communication is hard.
- hnfong 3y ago
  > What is wrong is thinking that you can throw words and/or people around just because you don't see their faces, don't like how they name the variables, or you think you can say anything because you're a nerd/geek/hacker/whatever and these features or adjectives give you license to push people around. I don't know what you're talking about. Are you talking about the jerks you encountered in life, or the exchange between the OP and the kernel maintainer? Because I don't see any of that behavior, nor anything that warrants the hostile interpretation I objected to earlier. Have you actually read the email exchanges in question, or are you taking the OP's claims at face value? PS: nvm, given your hyperbole at the very beginning ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37677962 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37677962 ) I probably gave you too much credit for attempting a grounded discussion.
  - bayindirh 3y ago
    I was going to write a detailed answer to your comment, but after your P.S. and assumptions about my intentions, I think I have the same feeling about my hopes for a grounded and fruitful discussion with you. All the best, Have a nice day.

by hnfong 3y ago

bayindirh 3y ago

Because it's not about not accepting the patch. I'm not there. It's about the style. About the oil: I'm not that kind of person. I'm just defending what I'm thinking right. Also, I know about oil burns. That's something I'd never wish on my enemy. One doesn't need to be overly, or overtly friendly, or to write long fluffy sentences to come across as kind. It's about the word choice yes, but not in the straightforward way we are wired to think. It's something more subtle. I write many e-mails every day, talking with people from many nations, at every level in many projects. Some of these mails are novellas, some of them are four word bursts. Yet regardless of the length of the mail, I can convey the tone I want, and people understand that. Sometimes I need to say no to people, and I say it directly. Sometimes I thank them sincerely. Rarely I write hard/heavy mails, which is something I hate to do (and I don't use the word lightly), but without any strong words, and they go through too. Being kind is not playing the ego game, and doesn't need extra time. What is wrong is thinking that you can throw words and/or people around just because you don't see their faces, don't like how they name the variables, or you think you can say anything because you're a nerd/geek/hacker/whatever and these features or adjectives give you license to push people around. Lastly, I think soft-skills are way more important in development communities, because your projects' life-span is measured with the health of the community supporting it. Gate-keeping, elitism, and similar acts slowly but surely damages a community. We should strive to be better humans first. Coding is easy. Communication is hard.

hnfong 3y ago
> What is wrong is thinking that you can throw words and/or people around just because you don't see their faces, don't like how they name the variables, or you think you can say anything because you're a nerd/geek/hacker/whatever and these features or adjectives give you license to push people around. I don't know what you're talking about. Are you talking about the jerks you encountered in life, or the exchange between the OP and the kernel maintainer? Because I don't see any of that behavior, nor anything that warrants the hostile interpretation I objected to earlier. Have you actually read the email exchanges in question, or are you taking the OP's claims at face value? PS: nvm, given your hyperbole at the very beginning ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37677962 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37677962 ) I probably gave you too much credit for attempting a grounded discussion.
- bayindirh 3y ago
  I was going to write a detailed answer to your comment, but after your P.S. and assumptions about my intentions, I think I have the same feeling about my hopes for a grounded and fruitful discussion with you. All the best, Have a nice day.