7 ms·

> It just makes me wonder what is the correct way to legislate opioids? Is legislation the primary problem with these addicts? Or are there other social facto

> It just makes me wonder what is the correct way to legislate opioids? Is legislation the primary problem with these addicts? Or are there other social factors involved? If so, then perhaps the legislation itself is the least important part of the puzzle. > Also, obviously, we shouldn't criminalize addiction to opioids. We don't.. it's just possession and sales that are criminalized. > can legally maintain an addiction What social interest is there in promoting that? > a recreational heroin user can get a prescription, and if someone accidentally becomes addicted to painkillers that were prescribed for medical reasons, they can legally continue that addiction as long as they want to? There's a real fantasy on Hacker News about what the debonair lifestyles of heroin addicts actually are and zero apparent understanding of the long term consequences of the same.

gwbas1c 3y ago
>> can legally maintain an addiction > What social interest is there in promoting that? Because the whole reason why we have the opioid crisis is because consuming any opioid without a medical reason is illegal. IE, if you have an injury, and are prescribed opioids, and then accidentally get addicted, your only legal option is to go through withdrawal. If you or I found ourselves in that situation, we'd probably go through withdrawal. Other people won't, and choose to violate drug laws in order to maintain their addiction. Edit: I just want to point out that plenty of people willingly do stupid things: They get addicted to cigarettes, become alcoholics, drive too fast, write mean comments on the internet... We don't force them to quit their vices. The same should apply to opioids too.
- chimeracoder 3y ago
  I agree with your premise that the criminalization of opiates is the root cause of the opioid crisis today. > If you or I found ourselves in that situation, we'd probably go through withdrawal. I wouldn't be so quick to make that assumption if I were you. Most people who become opiate addicts involuntarily would have assumed they would never resort to illegal opiate use. That's a crucial piece of the puzzle: opiate users aren't a different class of person than you or any of the other users on this site. They're not cut from a different cloth. In all likelihood, most people on this site would respond the same way if put in the same situation. The only difference is that most are lucky enough that they haven't been put in that situation.
  - gwbas1c 3y ago
    > I wouldn't be so quick to make that assumption if I were you I could hardly function on the opioids (Lortab?) that I was prescribed after major surgery. I was relieved when my surgeon told me to stop taking them. Likewise, and I really hate the other opioids (Percoset?) I've been prescribed for minor dental surgery. One person I know really enjoyed them and ended up dying from the addiction. Clearly my head and body react differently than other people. I assume that akira2501 would be ultra-careful if he was in my situation.
  - I_Am_Nous 3y ago
    Unfortunately you never know how you'll react until you are in that situation yourself. Nicotine and caffeine aren't really addictive for me, but on a whim I tried some kratom capsules for back pain. After taking them daily for a week or so, I started feeling really drained after work. As a test, I took another capsule to see what would happen, and I started feeling better again. Threw away the rest of the capsules. If my physiology reacts in such a way, it means I was beginning to develop a physical addiction to it. To Kratom, of all things. It kind of opened my eyes to how quickly it can happen to people as well as how the desire to feel better and reduce suffering can easily lead us to ruin if we aren't careful and attentive.
- akira2501 3y ago
  > Other people won't, and choose to violate drug laws in order to maintain their addiction. Fair enough, but I am simply unwilling to call "just letting them be addicted" a _solution_ of any sort whatsoever. I'm entirely disappointed with this level of social response. You can be saddened by the apparent hopelessness of their situation, but beckoning further destruction and squalor for lack of willingness to truly care about the problem genuinely upsets me. I understand that part of the concern is these people acquiring a "record" that will make their life difficult in the future. A simple mechanism that expunges these charges entirely upon proof of sobriety is all that's needed to solve this.
  - gwbas1c 3y ago
    The squalor that you describe is a function of the legal status; not the other way around. Basically, the problems that arose from alcohol prohibition are the biggest proof that keeping a substance illegal leads to crime and squalor; not the substance itself.
  - gwbas1c 3y ago
    I should also add that "just letting them be addicted" is not a solution. It's a holding pattern; just like how we accept that alcoholics and smokers will chose to quit when they are ready to; or suffer the consequences from their vices. (Assuming you're in the US or similarly governed countries:) The law isn't about forcing people to make the right decisions for themselves, it's about helping society function. IE, "freedom" only works when other people can do dumb things. Clearly, our current situation (opioid consumption is illegal unless actively being used for pain management) isn't working; and doubling down on that situation isn't a solution either. There's a clear difference between "you shouldn't do this" and "doing this is illegal." Having the maturity to understand the difference is why we ended alcohol prohibition, and also what's needed to contain (and hopefully end) the opioid epidemic.

gwbas1c 3y ago

>> can legally maintain an addiction > What social interest is there in promoting that? Because the whole reason why we have the opioid crisis is because consuming any opioid without a medical reason is illegal. IE, if you have an injury, and are prescribed opioids, and then accidentally get addicted, your only legal option is to go through withdrawal. If you or I found ourselves in that situation, we'd probably go through withdrawal. Other people won't, and choose to violate drug laws in order to maintain their addiction. Edit: I just want to point out that plenty of people willingly do stupid things: They get addicted to cigarettes, become alcoholics, drive too fast, write mean comments on the internet... We don't force them to quit their vices. The same should apply to opioids too.

chimeracoder 3y ago
I agree with your premise that the criminalization of opiates is the root cause of the opioid crisis today. > If you or I found ourselves in that situation, we'd probably go through withdrawal. I wouldn't be so quick to make that assumption if I were you. Most people who become opiate addicts involuntarily would have assumed they would never resort to illegal opiate use. That's a crucial piece of the puzzle: opiate users aren't a different class of person than you or any of the other users on this site. They're not cut from a different cloth. In all likelihood, most people on this site would respond the same way if put in the same situation. The only difference is that most are lucky enough that they haven't been put in that situation.
- gwbas1c 3y ago
  > I wouldn't be so quick to make that assumption if I were you I could hardly function on the opioids (Lortab?) that I was prescribed after major surgery. I was relieved when my surgeon told me to stop taking them. Likewise, and I really hate the other opioids (Percoset?) I've been prescribed for minor dental surgery. One person I know really enjoyed them and ended up dying from the addiction. Clearly my head and body react differently than other people. I assume that akira2501 would be ultra-careful if he was in my situation.
- I_Am_Nous 3y ago
  Unfortunately you never know how you'll react until you are in that situation yourself. Nicotine and caffeine aren't really addictive for me, but on a whim I tried some kratom capsules for back pain. After taking them daily for a week or so, I started feeling really drained after work. As a test, I took another capsule to see what would happen, and I started feeling better again. Threw away the rest of the capsules. If my physiology reacts in such a way, it means I was beginning to develop a physical addiction to it. To Kratom, of all things. It kind of opened my eyes to how quickly it can happen to people as well as how the desire to feel better and reduce suffering can easily lead us to ruin if we aren't careful and attentive.
akira2501 3y ago
> Other people won't, and choose to violate drug laws in order to maintain their addiction. Fair enough, but I am simply unwilling to call "just letting them be addicted" a _solution_ of any sort whatsoever. I'm entirely disappointed with this level of social response. You can be saddened by the apparent hopelessness of their situation, but beckoning further destruction and squalor for lack of willingness to truly care about the problem genuinely upsets me. I understand that part of the concern is these people acquiring a "record" that will make their life difficult in the future. A simple mechanism that expunges these charges entirely upon proof of sobriety is all that's needed to solve this.
- gwbas1c 3y ago
  The squalor that you describe is a function of the legal status; not the other way around. Basically, the problems that arose from alcohol prohibition are the biggest proof that keeping a substance illegal leads to crime and squalor; not the substance itself.
- gwbas1c 3y ago
  I should also add that "just letting them be addicted" is not a solution. It's a holding pattern; just like how we accept that alcoholics and smokers will chose to quit when they are ready to; or suffer the consequences from their vices. (Assuming you're in the US or similarly governed countries:) The law isn't about forcing people to make the right decisions for themselves, it's about helping society function. IE, "freedom" only works when other people can do dumb things. Clearly, our current situation (opioid consumption is illegal unless actively being used for pain management) isn't working; and doubling down on that situation isn't a solution either. There's a clear difference between "you shouldn't do this" and "doing this is illegal." Having the maturity to understand the difference is why we ended alcohol prohibition, and also what's needed to contain (and hopefully end) the opioid epidemic.