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I think this depends on who you are. As a hobbyist programmer, I don't use the big providers like AWS and Google because they seem rather complex? Maybe it's n

I think this depends on who you are. As a hobbyist programmer, I don't use the big providers like AWS and Google because they seem rather complex? Maybe it's not so bad if you're used to them. I also like to make each project independent, as its own repo on GitHub. Ideally, a web app would be easy for anyone else to launch, as their their own independent web app, using a separate domain name, because I don't want to be responsible for their data. (This is sort of the Sandstorm use case.) "Try it out locally and get a Deno Deploy account if you want to use it for real" seem like reasonable install instructions?

willsmith72 3y ago
If Deno only suits hobbyist programmers, it's failed. To pick up steam it's going to have to pull people away from AWS and Google who already know how to use them. As for making project's independent, so do I, but that's simple in other clouds too with infra as code or one of the various deployment frameworks (fly lets you do this, AWS copilot does this, terraform, serverless)
- skybrian 3y ago
  I think you might overestimate how much other people know about cloud infrastructure. I am very out-of-date and only vaguely know what these things do. I looked at Fly and they have nice docs and interesting ideas, but they’re also clear that they don’t do “fully managed” databases and I don’t want to be a DBA. I know of AWS as a huge pile of complexity that I’m not sure I want to get into? Using it directly seems too low-level for me (I’ve used Digital Ocean and it seems more my kind of thing, but it doesn’t scale down to zero for a website that gets no traffic.) Looking at Terraform, it’s not obviously about solving any problem I care about, and wasn’t there a huge controversy about them? Serverless is a buzzword. Isn’t Deno sort of serverless too? I think of Deno Deploy as a step up from Netlify, which is fine for static websites. Or maybe a reincarnation of App Engine, which I quite liked back when it launched, but it seems to have lost its way.
  - willsmith72 3y ago
    this is the serverless framework im talking about https://www.serverless.com/ https://www.serverless.com/ but fair enough. I do think the simplicity of deno will be a trap though. The benefit of a mature framework is you don't have to get lost in the weeds on obscure bugs or functionality with slightly niche use cases.
quickthrower2 3y ago
Be careful, simplicity seekers! Fly.io famous for outages, Vercel/Next.js v13 and app router saga. Simple is the stuff that ain't really changed for 10 years. C# + SQL Server. NodeJS + Postgres, etc. A bit more work at first but well worth it. Will pay off after a good 7 days when you hit the first snag of the new tech.

willsmith72 3y ago

If Deno only suits hobbyist programmers, it's failed. To pick up steam it's going to have to pull people away from AWS and Google who already know how to use them. As for making project's independent, so do I, but that's simple in other clouds too with infra as code or one of the various deployment frameworks (fly lets you do this, AWS copilot does this, terraform, serverless)

skybrian 3y ago
I think you might overestimate how much other people know about cloud infrastructure. I am very out-of-date and only vaguely know what these things do. I looked at Fly and they have nice docs and interesting ideas, but they’re also clear that they don’t do “fully managed” databases and I don’t want to be a DBA. I know of AWS as a huge pile of complexity that I’m not sure I want to get into? Using it directly seems too low-level for me (I’ve used Digital Ocean and it seems more my kind of thing, but it doesn’t scale down to zero for a website that gets no traffic.) Looking at Terraform, it’s not obviously about solving any problem I care about, and wasn’t there a huge controversy about them? Serverless is a buzzword. Isn’t Deno sort of serverless too? I think of Deno Deploy as a step up from Netlify, which is fine for static websites. Or maybe a reincarnation of App Engine, which I quite liked back when it launched, but it seems to have lost its way.
- willsmith72 3y ago
  this is the serverless framework im talking about https://www.serverless.com/ https://www.serverless.com/ but fair enough. I do think the simplicity of deno will be a trap though. The benefit of a mature framework is you don't have to get lost in the weeds on obscure bugs or functionality with slightly niche use cases.

quickthrower2 3y ago

Be careful, simplicity seekers! Fly.io famous for outages, Vercel/Next.js v13 and app router saga. Simple is the stuff that ain't really changed for 10 years. C# + SQL Server. NodeJS + Postgres, etc. A bit more work at first but well worth it. Will pay off after a good 7 days when you hit the first snag of the new tech.