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The Ashley Book of Knots (1944)
- pacaro 3y agoDoe anyone know how this compares to Knots Splices and Fancywork? https://g.co/kgs/ciFr2n https://g.co/kgs/ciFr2n
- hprotagonist 3y agoABOK is wonderful. I have my grandfather’s copy, which is somewhat in need of a rebinding but otherwise in good shape. https://www.animatedknots.com https://www.animatedknots.com offers an app with some animations of knots that cites ABOK numbers and page numbers, and i have that installed on my phone.
- Tao3300 3y agoI love Grog's site. I wanted to buy the app but apparently my Android version is too new :(
- kej 3y ago> in need of a rebinding Rebinding this particular book reminded me of an old coworker at Scout camp who did something neat where he completely unbound it, laminated each page, and then stuck it all in a 3-ring binder. It made it so the book would lie flat on any page, which is nice when you need both hands to practice a knot, and also protected it from messy 11 year olds. (He had another copy which he kept in pristine condition, as well.)
- pjdesno 3y agoI still have a copy I was given when I was a kid. What's kind of amazing is that it's from when there were still a few commercial sailing ships around.
- thenobsta 3y agoClifford Ashley was one of the last marlinspike seamen. What an encyclopedic knowledge of knots. I pull my copy out every now and then and just sit and tie knots and/or share useful knots with my kiddo.
- jrh3 3y agoAnd the stories he tells about the origin of knots and people he learned them from are great.
- ChrisArchitect 3y agoRelated: Big knots discussion earlier this month: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37346115 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37346115
- brunoqc 3y agoAnyone has a mobile app recommendation for knots? EDIT(ABOK -> Grog) has one but it's outdated and not available on my device.
- davidjade 3y agoI like Grog animated knots: https://www.animatedknots.com/ https://www.animatedknots.com/
- brunoqc 3y agooh. I said "ABOK" when I meant "Grog". It looks great but it's outdated.
- iskela 3y agoHow can a knot be outdated? Seems odd in a thread about 80 year old book.
- mighmi 3y agoClearly we have higher performing knots which leverage modern material benefits for less slippage, total movements/tying time and complexity etc.!
- dates 3y agoThe application and material of ropes has changed over time, specifically ABOK was published just before the advent of Nylon ropes.
- davidjade 3y agoThe other decent one (Knot Guide) has now put their knots behind a subscription.
- swalberg 3y agoKnow knots or tie lots! Knowing a few different knots for a variety of situations comes in handy. The right knot holds properly and can usually be undone when needed without having to cut it out. If you're starting out then the square knot, two half hitches, taught line hitch, clove hitch, and bowline cover most use cases. And, yes, those are among the basic ones taught to Scouts.
- loloquwowndueo 3y ago*taut line hitch.
- 123pie123 3y agoa very simple knot that has been very useful to me and yet simple to learn is the - round turn and two half hitches knot. for tying a line or rope under tension
- pclmulqdq 3y agoI would suggest adding the sheet bend (ABOK #1) to that list: if you ever end up not having enough rope, you will want to be able to join multiple sections together.
- swalberg 3y agoYea, another good Scout knot. While a square knot can do the same it can capsize under tension!
- eternityforest 3y agoPretty sure Ashley himself says the square knot should never be used as a bend, and that doing so has probably killed more people than any other knot failure.
- pclmulqdq 3y agoSquare knots used as bends have a tendency to loosen over time when used with rope that is not exactly equal in characteristics, especially when they are not under tension (or the line alternates between slack and taut). I believe the US Navy recommends 2 bowlines over a square knot, but the sheet bend is still the gold standard.
- kaushalvivek 3y agoSaw this video on Knot Theory a while back — the developments in this obscure branch of mathematics have been phenomenal in the last century, with wide-ranging impact. https://youtu.be/8DBhTXM_Br4?si=vDfNBPXpj4OMfLPY https://youtu.be/8DBhTXM_Br4?si=vDfNBPXpj4OMfLPY
- 303uru 3y agoTopology is super interesting. Thanks for the video!
- weeksie 3y agoWhen I was a kid on the gillnetter I'd read that book all the time and would practice tying some of the more elaborate knots. I wish I still had my dad's old marlin spike. Had it for years, with a wobbly old turk's head I'd tied on the eyelet. Gobbled up by the mists of time (an old girlfriend threw my shit out a dozen years ago and it was a casualty)
- AlbertCory 3y agoA long time ago, I took the Sierra Club Basic Mountaineering Training Course (which was since abolished after some lawsuits!). We practiced the bowline-on-a-coil and belaying someone on flat land, and then we did rock climbing, belaying each other. I had a gentleman on the climbing end, who shouted "on belay" to which I responded "belay on." Then he yelled "falling." I was sitting with my feet braced, and I'd practiced holding with my legs instead of my arms, so I was able to keep him from getting hurt. I guess nowadays I could monetize that, if I had it on video.
- jonah 3y agoThe risk with the Bowline is that it can work itself loose if it is repeatedly tensioned and loosened. It _definitely_ needs a backup safety knot on the tail.
- yardshop 3y agoOr tie it as a double round-turn bowline, with an extra turn for both the "rabbit" going around the tree, and for the hole. In a previous job I had to constantly take my office master key out of my pocket and put it back. Before long I made a lanyard for it with a brass clip to go on a belt loop and a regular split ring on the other end, both attached with a normal bowline. After a short period, maybe a few weeks to a month, I noticed it loosening up. I retied it with double round-turn bowlines on each end, and it held together like that for years.
- at_a_remove 3y agoI have problems with knots, I am terrible with them, despite having some books. I think what I really need is a flowchart (what are you tying to what else? what kind of cordage do you have? what kind on the other end, if applicable?) with a list of knots at one end, with their various strengths and weaknesses. The jargon is a bit of an issue, too.
- eternityforest 3y agoI like to try to make up stories for them, so I don't have to rely on visual or muscle memory.
- nas 3y agoYou can make due with only a couple of good knots. Very short list: the reef knot (square knot, avoid the granny version) and the alpine butterfly (don't use reef knot for joining two ropes, i.e. a "bend"). The alpine butterfly is more useful to know than the bowline, IMHO. If you want to expand your list a little, here are some additional useful ones: double fisherman's, adjustable grip hitch, sheet bend, trucker's hitch. Edit: I suppose this is more useful with a little additional commentary. The reef knot is so common that you should know it and know how to avoid the granny knot and also when not to use it (e.g. as a bend). You can use the alpine butterfly as a bend and also for quite few other things. It is more versatile than the bowline (e.g. if you need a loop that doesn't slip) and works fine as a bend (very smiilar to the Zeppelin bend).
- at_a_remove 3y agoRight, but this isn't a what question, it's a when to do what question. I might know a knot, but I don't know when to use that knot and when it ought to be avoided. That's what I am getting at. Even under the "bend" page in Wikipedia, sometimes the knots are merely described.
- marai2 3y agoBe the change you want to see in the world ;-) I think a flow chart of when to use a knot is a great idea! Please make it!
- fenomas 3y agoWhat I love about ABOK is that, while it's exhaustive and technical, there's still a lot of personality in the descriptions and commentary. Not only in the chapter headings, but even the knot descriptions sometimes have random little anecdotes, and you get the sense that the author must have been quite a guy. A favorite quote: > The topsail halyard bend is said to be a yachting hitch, but it is possible that it has never appeared outside the covers of a book. It has one more turn than the studding-sail bend and this, like the second tablespoonful of castor oil, savors of redundancy.
- neves 3y agoDoes it have an index pointing to each knot or categorizing them? It would be really nice to know which knot to use in each occasion. I couldn't find the index.
- smusamashah 3y agoKnots are shared a lot here. There are sites listing hundreds of them each with its own strengths and weaknesses and use cases. But is there any science/math to them? For example, if I want to have not with specific set of features, is there something like an algorithm to build that knot from scratch?
- stvltvs 3y agoThe math of knots is more rudimentary than what you're asking for but still fascinating! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8DBhTXM_Br4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8DBhTXM_Br4
- jaxn 3y agoKnots end up being the weakest part of the line. Whenever possible I prefer splices when heavy loads are involved.
- teeray 3y agoThe Marlinspike hitch is my favorite :) If you stick anything functioning as a marlinspike in there (stick, screwdriver, etc.), you get a great handle for pulling in tension. If you put a hook in there, you have a hitch onto the hook that can be released by slipping it off (and the whole knot collapses in on itself). If you stick the tag end one way instead, you end up with a great stopper knot (Oysterman’s Stopper Knot) that is triple the diameter of the cordage. If you stick the tag end in another way, you end up a Bowline—and it’s a whole lot faster tying it than the “rabbit-around-the-tree” method.
- dougalm 3y ago> a great stopper knot (Oysterman’s Stopper Knot) Also known as the Ashley stopper knot! I've started keeping a short length of paracord on my desk to practice knots during video calls. It makes a great fidget toy. The Ashley stopper is what I've been tying this week and it's such a gem (but a little harder to untie than I'd like). ABOK is the classic. But I was surprised to learn recently that it's not the final word on knots. Superior knots like the Zeppelin bend don't appear in it and there have even been useful knots invented since it was published. Geoffrey Budworth's "The Ultimate Encyclopedia of Knots and Ropework" includes knots that were invented in the 80s.
- Tao3300 3y agoI've started the same habit. Practicing Chinese Button Knots today.
- triyambakam 3y ago> I've started keeping a short length of paracord on my desk to practice knots during video calls What a great idea. I just started learning knots. What do you use to tie onto? Some knots require something to which to fix.
- MrVandemar 3y agoNot the parent, but I cut myself a nice stick, divided it into shortish lengths of three, probably about 20cm, sanded them down. Three sticks lets you practice a number of knots, and I stored them tied with two lengths of rope (the fantastic hitch, forget what it's called, but two of them are brilliant for bundling poles together). Then I just carried that around in my bag, or in a drawer at work, and when the opportunity presented itself, I practiced.
- Ishmaeli 3y agoI think this might be my favorite kind of nonfiction book. Truly the Bible of knots. For years I have looked for a list of "Bibles" of their respective subjects, but have never found anything quite right. Chapman's Piloting & Seamanship is another example that comes to mind.
- cmpalmer52 3y agoIt reminds me of the 501 Mechanical Movements type books, which are endlessly fascinating to me.
- Metus 3y agoMaybe you can start that list, on GitHub or something like that, so people can contribute.
- justin_oaks 3y agoI often keep a short piece of paracord or nylon rope in my pocket for tying knots. It works well for keeping my hands busy. I'll often tie a chain sinnet, a series of half-hitches so that they spiral, a diamond knot, or just a bunch of other knots that I try to remember how to tie. What knots do you tie when you're just trying to keep your hands busy?
- obloid 3y agoZeppelin bend and Carrick bend are my favorites. The knots I actually use the most in daily life are bowline and trucker hitch. I'm partial to constrictor knots as well.
- westcort 3y agoAlthough this is a good one, there are other interesting books and resources on knots here: https://www.locserendipity.com/TitleSearch.html?q=knot https://www.locserendipity.com/TitleSearch.html?q=knot
- waynesonfire 3y agoi carry this book and a piece of string with me and try to tie various knots. very satisfying while i sit around. i find it very difficult to remember how to tie a knot when not practiced. i like the glue that the author recommends in the book for applying on string ends to prevent them from fraying, it's called duco cement -- comes in a green tube. some of the knots i've remember off the top of my head: bowline, constrictor knot, alpine knot, truckers hitch, midshipments hitch. and i'll end it with a fun fact, The Midshipman's Hitch Knot is promoted by Ashley (ABOK # 1993, p 325) as the only knot to tie in the following unlikely but critical circumstance: you fall overboard and catch hold of the line which you have prudently left trailing astern and find yourself hanging on with difficulty.
- turtledragonfly 3y agoMy understanding is that a lot of "knot culture" developed during the Nantucket whaling days. There were knots before, of course, but the variety and intricacy exploded. (a bit of a simplification of course, there are lots of cool Celtic knots and whatnot, too) It was a somewhat special time, where you had a lot of relatively well-paid capable people stuck on a boat with nothing to do for sometimes weeks on end. Encourages some creativity, I suppose (: Scrimshaw is another product of that time — some really intricate stuff out there (eg: [1]). For me, I feel like the bowline and trucker's hitch give you huge bang for the buck. Memorize those, and you can handle many things, with a bit of rope. [1] https://modelshipworld.com/topic/27614-prisoner-of-war-bone-model-c-1800-by-shipmodel-restoration-by-dan-pariser/ https://modelshipworld.com/topic/27614-prisoner-of-war-bone-...
- JoeAltmaier 3y agoTautline very useful, especially with tents. But the Tarbuck is just that little bit better, and identically easy to tie (and untie).
- saberience 3y agoI’m sure knots were developed for whaling… but most were developed (as might be expected) during the age of sail and the British empire.
- AndyKluger 3y agoI just want to say that I enjoy and recommend Philippe Petit's opinionated Why Knot? book.
- eternityforest 3y agoKnot tying is amazing. After all these years it's still useful in everyday life. New knots are being invented... But the classic ones remain just as useful. I like history, but I don't often encounter old technology with that level of modern relevance, so it really seems like something special. I'm surprised they don't make a bigger deal about learning them, like some people do about cursive.
- hakeberio 3y agoKnot theory in topology is super interesting and have very practical applications in the real world (protein folding, chemical structures, etc). Fun fact: Conway was involved in tabulating 11-crossing prime knots. I found this veritasium video helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DBhTXM_Br4&pp=ygULa25vdCB0aGVvcnk%3D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DBhTXM_Br4&pp=ygULa25vdCB0a...