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Spending my 20s in city, where I could walk to a bar/friend's house/restaurant/ball game, was a wonderful experience. When I talk to young people who live in so

Spending my 20s in city, where I could walk to a bar/friend's house/restaurant/ball game, was a wonderful experience. When I talk to young people who live in some generic suburb I can't help but feel depressed. And for older folks too - the isolation is real. It's a shame so much of our built environment reduces socialization.

VyseofArcadia 3y ago
> When I talk to young people who live in some generic suburb I can't help but feel depressed. On the other hand, I grew up and spent about the first two-thirds of my life in an extremely rural area. Socializing happened only at school, and when your nearest friends are a thirty minute drive away, you learn to effectively spend time alone. I read, I wandered through the woods, I played video games. Activities I still enjoy. It was nice spending my 20s a few minutes walk from my friends, restaurants, my office, etc, but it certainly got overwhelming. People were inviting me to do stuff nearly every night. I frequently wondered if people just live like that and when they found the time to just do normal alone stuff.
- addicted 3y ago
  > but it certainly got overwhelming. People were inviting me to do stuff nearly every night. I frequently wondered if people just live like that and when they found the time to just do normal alone stuff. The realization that helped me here is that people don’t think about you as much as you think they do. So, for example, if you ignore most events, and just join these events once every few weeks, it’s not like people will think any less of you. I decided to skip a lot more of these events and instead meet smaller groups of friends for last moment smaller hang outs instead. Maybe just grab a 30 min walk after work or grab a coffee or a couple of drinks a weekend morning.
  - esafak 3y ago
    I would not go that far. If you repeatedly turn down a friend you won't get invited any more.
    - brewdad 3y ago
      If meeting up with a friend every few weeks instead of nightly means you no longer want anything to do with that person, I doubt the friendship was that strong to begin with. Also, there's a difference between having a friend turn down a one to one meetup versus turning down a party of 30 people, 20 of whom they don't really know.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    The other thing to remember is that if YOU do an event, and invite 10 people, that is ten invites. Everyone will receive more invites than they can accept, it's normal.
- lobsterslive 3y ago
  Having grown up in a rural area, I share your experience. I'm very comfortable being by myself and get drained when I have to socialize. I honestly feel pretty lucky to be this way. Most people get incredibly stressed when they have to be alone. Finding joy with yourself leads to a pretty high quality of life imho.
- dukeyukey 3y ago
  I quite enjoyed my rural upbringing, but there was a massive lack of specific stuff to do. Like, I wanted to do martial arts for ages as a kid, and I had zero options. Not a single club within an hours drive. That was real annoying. So I moved to London, and damn I'm glad I did.
nervousvarun 3y ago
Interesting...spent 20s in city also but now live in suburbs and don't feel isolated at all. We know all our neighbors, our kids play together etc. I didn't know any of these people before we lived there obviously. Would argue it's less about "where you are" and more about "how easy it is for you to make new friends" but that's purely anecdotal. I guess if it's about going to bars to make friendships then yes there will be less of that in suburbs (assuming U.S. here). But as you age going to bars is a "need" that seems to generally decrease for most (not all of course) people. How is a suburb inherently lonely exactly?
- bell-cot 3y ago
  It varies enormously - but some ‘burbs are described as being all 1-2 person McMansions, where everyone has a lawn service, to make sure they can’t meet anyone else while out doing yard work.
  - bluefirebrand 3y ago
    My suburb has houses crammed together so close I can see into my neighbors kitchen if the blinds aren't close. When I do go mow my lawn I have the alcoholic on the one side come out and complain to me about his life and an old retired lawn obsessed guy on the other side come tell me how my lawn is shit and I need to take better care of it. And I'm just thankful I'm no longer in apartments where I have to deal with neighbours screaming matches at 3am, people having parties above me every single weekend, crappy landlords, and all the other shit.
olah_1 3y ago
> Spending my 20s in city, where I could walk to a bar/friend's house/restaurant/ball game, was a wonderful experience. For many, living in a city like that can be just as isolating, if not more. Because being surrounded by so many people and not having any real connections is a different kind of hurt. It's sort of a cosmic joke at that point.
- dwmbt 3y ago
  taken me a couple of years to figure this out. moved to a medium-large city post uni with a grand delusion that i'd simply make friends and find my wife due to the virtue of living in a denser environment. after a while, it didn't work out like i thought it would. surely, it had nothing to do with me and my inability to socialize properly? nay! i came to the naive conclusion that the city was at fault, or that we were mismated: "it's not big enough and there's not enough to do, or places to meet people. it's really far from the things i like to do, like the ocean or hiking spots." so, i moved to one of the most dense, socially-active cities in the world. been here a while and yeah, it sucks. i think you put it best, feels a bit like a cosmic joke. there's only a few places in the world where so many people are crammed into such a small place. yet, i have no one. i had enough and dished out some $$$ to spend 2 months in a rural town. a real quiet place, one of those towns with a single coffee shop. no whole foods or any amazon shenanigans. i miss some things, but the only times i've felt this at home have been... at home, with my parents. i think i'll move back in with them and give up on the city dream.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    The people who are "naturally social" will be social anywhere, but in a small town you can be the most antisocial person ever made, and people will get to know you, simply because you're one of the only thousand people they ever see.
  - dukeyukey 3y ago
    In my experience moving from a tiny town to London after graduating, is big cities take way more effort on your part, but reward you more for it. Like yeah, in your hometown you'll probably run into people more and gradually get to know them better. In a big city that won't happen nearly as much. But, a big city has _scale_. You wanna give D&D a go? There's probably a club within a mile or two of you. Fancy doing martial arts? You've got a choice of half a dozen with 20 minutes. You're a long-time hobbyist in an obscure type of Japanese figure painting? You might have to travel a bit, but your city has one of only three clubs for that hobby in the country so you win! Basically, put in the effort. It could easily take a year or more. But get out there, be social, take initiative, and you'll find your people.
hellotheretoday 3y ago
In cities things are more balanced like you’ve mentioned but our suburb design is so crushingly isolating. The suburbs that get built now are almost designed to be lonely: here’s 100+ houses all right next to each other so there are no real communal spaces for socialization. We’ve zoned it in a way so that if someone wants to open a pub or salon or whatever they will be refused from the start. If you want that experience you will almost inherently have to drive because the suburbs are often so large that walking is impractical. You either make friends with your neighbors, which most adults only do casually at best, or you just be lonely. This gets into the concept of “third space” or community space, which we often critically lack outside of cities. Living near friends is great if you have them but if you don’t you need some place to make them. Culturally we are in a weird spot for a lot of people. There are church related communities but that’s not helpful if you’re not religious. There’s the bar and club scene but that can be more focus on sex, can be expensive, and is also not for everyone (especially if you don’t drink alcohol). There’s niche interest groups like d&d and board game clubs, figure drawing classes, etc, but these can be hard to socialize in because of things like the group is already tight knit and not accepting of new faces, the class is focused and there’s not much time for socializing thus requiring another social space (eg let’s get drinks after class) which you may not have time for, etc It’s tough, I guess. The articl is a good suggestion but an oversimplification that glosses over these big systemic issues (especially the lack of community spaces that don’t constantly drain us of cash or expect us to be intoxicated). If you can live near your friends you should. But at the same time that’s way tougher than it sounds most of the time. I’d love to live near my friends but we’re all pushing 40 now. Everyone’s everywhere. We were once all in the same city but work took us all over the place and now we live all over the country. It’s hard enough to just stay in touch.
Aurornis 3y ago
> When I talk to young people who live in some generic suburb I can't help but feel depressed. It's easy to hole up in your suburban home and never socialize, but I know a lot of people who live in dense cities and never leave their house unless absolutely necessary either. Living in a suburb doesn't mean you're isolated from friends, as long as you live within a reasonable drive. It does mean everyone has to plan ahead and allocate a little more travel time, but that's not really a big deal when people are in their 30s with more obligations, work, and possibly kids. Living in the suburbs actually creates a different set of opportunities because now you have more space and likely a yard, too. Cramped parties in someone's apartment are fun when you're in your 20s, but in my 30s it's much nicer to head to someone's backyard BBQ or house that comfortably holds 40 people inside. There's also room for kids to play, room for outdoor games, and other things that weren't happening at parties in my 20s. If you're trying to project your exact current lifestyle on to suburban living then it's going to be disappointing. If you instead look at it from the perspective of being different rather than worse, you start to the possible upsides.
- bombcar 3y ago
  I think there's a real difference depending if you "fit" where you are. In a city, no matter how weird your interests, you'll likely find a group nearby that is also interested in that. In a small town or suburb if you're the "odd man out" it can be much harder. But when I "lived in the city" as a younger man, I was often traveling out to the suburbs where friends lived as they had the space and the things to do.
notatoad 3y ago
>It's a shame so much of our built environment reduces socialization. i don't think you can really blame the built environment, when that's the whole reason people built the environment that way. not being forced to interact with anybody other than the people you specifically choose to interact with is the whole reason people move to the suburbs, or avoid public transit. the isolation is the point.
- brewdad 3y ago
  And yet so many of us turn to social media to avoid feeling isolated. Urban, suburban, and rural life all have their pros and cons. Having lived in all three at various points in my life, I'm uncertain which lifestyle to choose as I begin to plan for retirement.
Tiktaalik 3y ago
> When I talk to young people who live in some generic suburb I can't help but feel depressed. I see this with the youngest workers at my company. When I was their age I moved to the city for $750/month and got a cheap apartment and lived in the thick of things, a 15 minute bike ride to the office and walking distance to bars and restaurants. For them to do the same as I did, rent would be $2500/m and so they've been forced into continuing to live in their parents basement way out in the burbs. Remote work has been a godsend for not burning half their day, but they're still resultingly isolated from the vibrant urban social life that I enjoyed. I'm sure there may be a few that prefer the burbs, but it's clear that there's no real actual choices being made here and it is economic conditions that are forcing their living conditions on them. It's really sad that we've allowed this to happen through our inaction and reluctance to allow new homes to be built.
- zhivota 3y ago
  Absolutely. The decision gets worse and worse as you progress, as well. We spec'ed out living in a city, just about any city, and economically it is such a hit for a family, on top of safety concerns (not just from crime but also just traffic in cities is atrocious in the US), school quality concerns, etc. I'd love to live somewhere walkable but I just don't have the budget to do it without putting our family on a knife edge monetarily.
- matchbok 3y ago
  Yeah, agreed. It's a shame - we have not spent the resources to build more of the stuff people want, so it keeps getting more expensive.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kansface 3y ago
I used to feel this way too, but I'm older and have literally moved on - my perspective has changed. SF has walkable neighborhoods without community, and the one doesn't flow from the other.

VyseofArcadia 3y ago

> When I talk to young people who live in some generic suburb I can't help but feel depressed. On the other hand, I grew up and spent about the first two-thirds of my life in an extremely rural area. Socializing happened only at school, and when your nearest friends are a thirty minute drive away, you learn to effectively spend time alone. I read, I wandered through the woods, I played video games. Activities I still enjoy. It was nice spending my 20s a few minutes walk from my friends, restaurants, my office, etc, but it certainly got overwhelming. People were inviting me to do stuff nearly every night. I frequently wondered if people just live like that and when they found the time to just do normal alone stuff.

addicted 3y ago
> but it certainly got overwhelming. People were inviting me to do stuff nearly every night. I frequently wondered if people just live like that and when they found the time to just do normal alone stuff. The realization that helped me here is that people don’t think about you as much as you think they do. So, for example, if you ignore most events, and just join these events once every few weeks, it’s not like people will think any less of you. I decided to skip a lot more of these events and instead meet smaller groups of friends for last moment smaller hang outs instead. Maybe just grab a 30 min walk after work or grab a coffee or a couple of drinks a weekend morning.
- esafak 3y ago
  I would not go that far. If you repeatedly turn down a friend you won't get invited any more.
  - brewdad 3y ago
    If meeting up with a friend every few weeks instead of nightly means you no longer want anything to do with that person, I doubt the friendship was that strong to begin with. Also, there's a difference between having a friend turn down a one to one meetup versus turning down a party of 30 people, 20 of whom they don't really know.
- bombcar 3y ago
  The other thing to remember is that if YOU do an event, and invite 10 people, that is ten invites. Everyone will receive more invites than they can accept, it's normal.
lobsterslive 3y ago
Having grown up in a rural area, I share your experience. I'm very comfortable being by myself and get drained when I have to socialize. I honestly feel pretty lucky to be this way. Most people get incredibly stressed when they have to be alone. Finding joy with yourself leads to a pretty high quality of life imho.
dukeyukey 3y ago
I quite enjoyed my rural upbringing, but there was a massive lack of specific stuff to do. Like, I wanted to do martial arts for ages as a kid, and I had zero options. Not a single club within an hours drive. That was real annoying. So I moved to London, and damn I'm glad I did.

nervousvarun 3y ago

Interesting...spent 20s in city also but now live in suburbs and don't feel isolated at all. We know all our neighbors, our kids play together etc. I didn't know any of these people before we lived there obviously. Would argue it's less about "where you are" and more about "how easy it is for you to make new friends" but that's purely anecdotal. I guess if it's about going to bars to make friendships then yes there will be less of that in suburbs (assuming U.S. here). But as you age going to bars is a "need" that seems to generally decrease for most (not all of course) people. How is a suburb inherently lonely exactly?

bell-cot 3y ago
It varies enormously - but some ‘burbs are described as being all 1-2 person McMansions, where everyone has a lawn service, to make sure they can’t meet anyone else while out doing yard work.
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  My suburb has houses crammed together so close I can see into my neighbors kitchen if the blinds aren't close. When I do go mow my lawn I have the alcoholic on the one side come out and complain to me about his life and an old retired lawn obsessed guy on the other side come tell me how my lawn is shit and I need to take better care of it. And I'm just thankful I'm no longer in apartments where I have to deal with neighbours screaming matches at 3am, people having parties above me every single weekend, crappy landlords, and all the other shit.

olah_1 3y ago

> Spending my 20s in city, where I could walk to a bar/friend's house/restaurant/ball game, was a wonderful experience. For many, living in a city like that can be just as isolating, if not more. Because being surrounded by so many people and not having any real connections is a different kind of hurt. It's sort of a cosmic joke at that point.

dwmbt 3y ago
taken me a couple of years to figure this out. moved to a medium-large city post uni with a grand delusion that i'd simply make friends and find my wife due to the virtue of living in a denser environment. after a while, it didn't work out like i thought it would. surely, it had nothing to do with me and my inability to socialize properly? nay! i came to the naive conclusion that the city was at fault, or that we were mismated: "it's not big enough and there's not enough to do, or places to meet people. it's really far from the things i like to do, like the ocean or hiking spots." so, i moved to one of the most dense, socially-active cities in the world. been here a while and yeah, it sucks. i think you put it best, feels a bit like a cosmic joke. there's only a few places in the world where so many people are crammed into such a small place. yet, i have no one. i had enough and dished out some $$$ to spend 2 months in a rural town. a real quiet place, one of those towns with a single coffee shop. no whole foods or any amazon shenanigans. i miss some things, but the only times i've felt this at home have been... at home, with my parents. i think i'll move back in with them and give up on the city dream.
- bombcar 3y ago
  The people who are "naturally social" will be social anywhere, but in a small town you can be the most antisocial person ever made, and people will get to know you, simply because you're one of the only thousand people they ever see.
- dukeyukey 3y ago
  In my experience moving from a tiny town to London after graduating, is big cities take way more effort on your part, but reward you more for it. Like yeah, in your hometown you'll probably run into people more and gradually get to know them better. In a big city that won't happen nearly as much. But, a big city has _scale_. You wanna give D&D a go? There's probably a club within a mile or two of you. Fancy doing martial arts? You've got a choice of half a dozen with 20 minutes. You're a long-time hobbyist in an obscure type of Japanese figure painting? You might have to travel a bit, but your city has one of only three clubs for that hobby in the country so you win! Basically, put in the effort. It could easily take a year or more. But get out there, be social, take initiative, and you'll find your people.

hellotheretoday 3y ago

In cities things are more balanced like you’ve mentioned but our suburb design is so crushingly isolating. The suburbs that get built now are almost designed to be lonely: here’s 100+ houses all right next to each other so there are no real communal spaces for socialization. We’ve zoned it in a way so that if someone wants to open a pub or salon or whatever they will be refused from the start. If you want that experience you will almost inherently have to drive because the suburbs are often so large that walking is impractical. You either make friends with your neighbors, which most adults only do casually at best, or you just be lonely. This gets into the concept of “third space” or community space, which we often critically lack outside of cities. Living near friends is great if you have them but if you don’t you need some place to make them. Culturally we are in a weird spot for a lot of people. There are church related communities but that’s not helpful if you’re not religious. There’s the bar and club scene but that can be more focus on sex, can be expensive, and is also not for everyone (especially if you don’t drink alcohol). There’s niche interest groups like d&d and board game clubs, figure drawing classes, etc, but these can be hard to socialize in because of things like the group is already tight knit and not accepting of new faces, the class is focused and there’s not much time for socializing thus requiring another social space (eg let’s get drinks after class) which you may not have time for, etc It’s tough, I guess. The articl is a good suggestion but an oversimplification that glosses over these big systemic issues (especially the lack of community spaces that don’t constantly drain us of cash or expect us to be intoxicated). If you can live near your friends you should. But at the same time that’s way tougher than it sounds most of the time. I’d love to live near my friends but we’re all pushing 40 now. Everyone’s everywhere. We were once all in the same city but work took us all over the place and now we live all over the country. It’s hard enough to just stay in touch.

Aurornis 3y ago

> When I talk to young people who live in some generic suburb I can't help but feel depressed. It's easy to hole up in your suburban home and never socialize, but I know a lot of people who live in dense cities and never leave their house unless absolutely necessary either. Living in a suburb doesn't mean you're isolated from friends, as long as you live within a reasonable drive. It does mean everyone has to plan ahead and allocate a little more travel time, but that's not really a big deal when people are in their 30s with more obligations, work, and possibly kids. Living in the suburbs actually creates a different set of opportunities because now you have more space and likely a yard, too. Cramped parties in someone's apartment are fun when you're in your 20s, but in my 30s it's much nicer to head to someone's backyard BBQ or house that comfortably holds 40 people inside. There's also room for kids to play, room for outdoor games, and other things that weren't happening at parties in my 20s. If you're trying to project your exact current lifestyle on to suburban living then it's going to be disappointing. If you instead look at it from the perspective of being different rather than worse, you start to the possible upsides.

bombcar 3y ago
I think there's a real difference depending if you "fit" where you are. In a city, no matter how weird your interests, you'll likely find a group nearby that is also interested in that. In a small town or suburb if you're the "odd man out" it can be much harder. But when I "lived in the city" as a younger man, I was often traveling out to the suburbs where friends lived as they had the space and the things to do.

notatoad 3y ago

>It's a shame so much of our built environment reduces socialization. i don't think you can really blame the built environment, when that's the whole reason people built the environment that way. not being forced to interact with anybody other than the people you specifically choose to interact with is the whole reason people move to the suburbs, or avoid public transit. the isolation is the point.

brewdad 3y ago
And yet so many of us turn to social media to avoid feeling isolated. Urban, suburban, and rural life all have their pros and cons. Having lived in all three at various points in my life, I'm uncertain which lifestyle to choose as I begin to plan for retirement.

Tiktaalik 3y ago

> When I talk to young people who live in some generic suburb I can't help but feel depressed. I see this with the youngest workers at my company. When I was their age I moved to the city for $750/month and got a cheap apartment and lived in the thick of things, a 15 minute bike ride to the office and walking distance to bars and restaurants. For them to do the same as I did, rent would be $2500/m and so they've been forced into continuing to live in their parents basement way out in the burbs. Remote work has been a godsend for not burning half their day, but they're still resultingly isolated from the vibrant urban social life that I enjoyed. I'm sure there may be a few that prefer the burbs, but it's clear that there's no real actual choices being made here and it is economic conditions that are forcing their living conditions on them. It's really sad that we've allowed this to happen through our inaction and reluctance to allow new homes to be built.

zhivota 3y ago
Absolutely. The decision gets worse and worse as you progress, as well. We spec'ed out living in a city, just about any city, and economically it is such a hit for a family, on top of safety concerns (not just from crime but also just traffic in cities is atrocious in the US), school quality concerns, etc. I'd love to live somewhere walkable but I just don't have the budget to do it without putting our family on a knife edge monetarily.
matchbok 3y ago
Yeah, agreed. It's a shame - we have not spent the resources to build more of the stuff people want, so it keeps getting more expensive.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

kansface 3y ago

I used to feel this way too, but I'm older and have literally moved on - my perspective has changed. SF has walkable neighborhoods without community, and the one doesn't flow from the other.