4 ms·

As a pedestrian and cyclist, all I can say is that I will feel much safer on the road once all vehicles around me are autonomous. I think that this will have a

As a pedestrian and cyclist, all I can say is that I will feel much safer on the road once all vehicles around me are autonomous. I think that this will have a big calming effect on traffic and the increased safety may encourage more people to cycle.

SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
I think I'd reserve judgement on that, I have heard of the pedestrian / cyclist detection being way behind the automobile detection. If it turns out safer, then I'd be delighted. Examples: https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2022/05/16/semi-autonomous-car-hit-cyclist-in-5-out-of-15-test-runs-finds-aaa/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2022/05/16/semi-aut... https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/05/teslas-full-self-driving-sees-pedestrian-chooses-not-to-slow-down/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/05/teslas-full-self-drivin...
josefresco 3y ago
The only way I communicate with drivers when I'm a pedestrian, or biker is by eye contact, voice and hand gestures. When driverless cars can translate these, I'll be interested. Until then, the idea of robo-vehicles whirling around me completely unresponsive to my human communication methods gives me great concern.
- ToucanLoucan 3y ago
  While I respect what you're saying, I'd add that literally every bad interaction I've had with traffic has been down to inattentive driving. To most drivers, my signals are incidental and largely irrelevant information. Far more threatening is people not looking when leaving driveways or using bike lanes as right turn lanes, which seems like the sort of things an autonomous vehicle would catch.
  - josefresco 3y ago
    Two anecdotes: Every day on my way to work I go through a 4 way stop. 1/4 of the time there's someone on the other side of me, who arrived at about the same time as me and one of us needs to decide who goes first. How do we do this? Hand gestures. We both (drivers) instantly know what the hand gesture means (after you) however with a robo driver I would just have to wait, and I guess see what it was going to do first? On my way back from home I cross a bike trail with a stop sign for cars and bikes. Many times there are people about to enter the crosswalk. How do we communicate? Hand gestures and smiles. I can't imagine the terror I'd feel trying to cross in front of a robo car.
    - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
      Oh yeah for sure, I'm not saying they're useless. I'm just saying I don't think an autonomous car is going to be a much larger threat in that situation. And even if it went at the same time you did, it can either detect that and wait for you to cross, or simply wait for you regardless.
    - RandallBrown 3y ago
      In both cases I would assume for the bike to get the right of way and the car would simply stop and wait for the biker to go. Either way, for the foreseeable future a human will still be sitting in the driver seat ready to make eye contact and wave you on. What I'm more excited about is the idea that more and more cars will be able to automatically stop if they see people/obstacles in the street. I've almost gotten hit plenty of times while crossing intersections with stop signs because the car pulled up past the sidewalk too quickly.
    - sunshinesnacks 3y ago
      In the 4-way stop example, isn’t that what right-of-way rules are for? Not following those rules because you saw a hand gesture seems like it puts you at risk if there is an accident. Maybe I’m misunderstanding your example. https://topdriver.com/education-blog/4-rules-4-way-stops/ https://topdriver.com/education-blog/4-rules-4-way-stops/
      - josefresco 3y ago
        Surely, however in practice determining who exactly arrived at an intersection first isn't that easy (maybe it will be for the robo cars).
        PawgerZ 3y ago
        Who arrives first is only the first rule. Did you even click on their link?
- j-wags 3y ago
  As a pedestrian in an urban area, my main purpose for communicating with drivers is to figure out whether they're going to actually give me the right of way that I (by law) have at stop signs. This is necessary because ~30% of human drivers choose to break the law and go first anyway. I'm optimistic about autonomous vehicles because (I assume) they're programmed to give pedestrians right of way 100% of the time.
- enragedcacti 3y ago
  I have no clue how thoroughly implemented this is, especially for pedestrians other than police, but Waymo does have support for hand signals and body language: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/waymo-self-driving-cars-police-officer-gestures/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/waymo-self-driving-cars-p... https://medium.com/waymo/safely-sharing-the-road-with-cyclists-9fe6ad3b79f5 https://medium.com/waymo/safely-sharing-the-road-with-cyclis...
- lp0_on_fire 3y ago
  Exactly. There's a reason that robots on an assembly line are behind barriers. And THOSE machines are far more controlled than a random robotic vehicle.
  - konschubert 3y ago
    And still, they are far more predictable and safe than the average 40-ton truck overtaking me on a narrow residential road.

SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago

I think I'd reserve judgement on that, I have heard of the pedestrian / cyclist detection being way behind the automobile detection. If it turns out safer, then I'd be delighted. Examples: https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2022/05/16/semi-autonomous-car-hit-cyclist-in-5-out-of-15-test-runs-finds-aaa/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2022/05/16/semi-aut... https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/05/teslas-full-self-driving-sees-pedestrian-chooses-not-to-slow-down/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/05/teslas-full-self-drivin...

josefresco 3y ago

The only way I communicate with drivers when I'm a pedestrian, or biker is by eye contact, voice and hand gestures. When driverless cars can translate these, I'll be interested. Until then, the idea of robo-vehicles whirling around me completely unresponsive to my human communication methods gives me great concern.

ToucanLoucan 3y ago
While I respect what you're saying, I'd add that literally every bad interaction I've had with traffic has been down to inattentive driving. To most drivers, my signals are incidental and largely irrelevant information. Far more threatening is people not looking when leaving driveways or using bike lanes as right turn lanes, which seems like the sort of things an autonomous vehicle would catch.
- josefresco 3y ago
  Two anecdotes: Every day on my way to work I go through a 4 way stop. 1/4 of the time there's someone on the other side of me, who arrived at about the same time as me and one of us needs to decide who goes first. How do we do this? Hand gestures. We both (drivers) instantly know what the hand gesture means (after you) however with a robo driver I would just have to wait, and I guess see what it was going to do first? On my way back from home I cross a bike trail with a stop sign for cars and bikes. Many times there are people about to enter the crosswalk. How do we communicate? Hand gestures and smiles. I can't imagine the terror I'd feel trying to cross in front of a robo car.
  - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
    Oh yeah for sure, I'm not saying they're useless. I'm just saying I don't think an autonomous car is going to be a much larger threat in that situation. And even if it went at the same time you did, it can either detect that and wait for you to cross, or simply wait for you regardless.
  - RandallBrown 3y ago
    In both cases I would assume for the bike to get the right of way and the car would simply stop and wait for the biker to go. Either way, for the foreseeable future a human will still be sitting in the driver seat ready to make eye contact and wave you on. What I'm more excited about is the idea that more and more cars will be able to automatically stop if they see people/obstacles in the street. I've almost gotten hit plenty of times while crossing intersections with stop signs because the car pulled up past the sidewalk too quickly.
  - sunshinesnacks 3y ago
    In the 4-way stop example, isn’t that what right-of-way rules are for? Not following those rules because you saw a hand gesture seems like it puts you at risk if there is an accident. Maybe I’m misunderstanding your example. https://topdriver.com/education-blog/4-rules-4-way-stops/ https://topdriver.com/education-blog/4-rules-4-way-stops/
    - josefresco 3y ago
      Surely, however in practice determining who exactly arrived at an intersection first isn't that easy (maybe it will be for the robo cars).
      - PawgerZ 3y ago
        Who arrives first is only the first rule. Did you even click on their link?
j-wags 3y ago
As a pedestrian in an urban area, my main purpose for communicating with drivers is to figure out whether they're going to actually give me the right of way that I (by law) have at stop signs. This is necessary because ~30% of human drivers choose to break the law and go first anyway. I'm optimistic about autonomous vehicles because (I assume) they're programmed to give pedestrians right of way 100% of the time.
enragedcacti 3y ago
I have no clue how thoroughly implemented this is, especially for pedestrians other than police, but Waymo does have support for hand signals and body language: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/waymo-self-driving-cars-police-officer-gestures/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/waymo-self-driving-cars-p... https://medium.com/waymo/safely-sharing-the-road-with-cyclists-9fe6ad3b79f5 https://medium.com/waymo/safely-sharing-the-road-with-cyclis...
lp0_on_fire 3y ago
Exactly. There's a reason that robots on an assembly line are behind barriers. And THOSE machines are far more controlled than a random robotic vehicle.
- konschubert 3y ago
  And still, they are far more predictable and safe than the average 40-ton truck overtaking me on a narrow residential road.