7 ms·

It's a shame Elementary imploded, and more a shame their funding model was very publicly debunked. I'm not sure how the ideals for Elementary can exist without

by Andrex 3y ago

It's a shame Elementary imploded, and more a shame their funding model was very publicly debunked. I'm not sure how the ideals for Elementary can exist without a unified, well-funded vision behind them.

RamRodification 3y ago
News to me. Can I read up on this somewhere?
- 2143 3y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30611748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30611748
  - RamRodification 3y ago
    Thanks
  - LanternLight83 3y ago
    The linked article didn't use Danielle's name (which was well known at the time), giving the impression that the author either didn't do his research or was being intentionally malicious (existing beef? but def. bias). For what it's worth, eOS appears to be alive and well to me[1]. Please let me know if you have any other sources regarding the project's status, and I hope they keep sailing; love their work. 1: https://github.com/elementary/os/commits/master https://github.com/elementary/os/commits/master
digi59404 3y ago
> more a shame their funding model was very publicly debunked It wasn't just that, both the founders were very big socialist/communist people who didn't really understand how to run a business. They still don't. Elementary OS turned down numerous funding opportunities, numerous partnership opportunities. They made a really really great OS. But the business aspect was just atrocious. The "Pay what you want" model could have worked for their store. But just having a store in the beginning they didn't want one and then they pivoted to having one way late. There was big internal strife in the eOS Community amongst the developers for years, and very little conflict resolution on their part. I wouldn't say they're an example of a failed funding model. Rather, I'd say they're an example of people who have amazing talent and ideas, but refused business help and refused to admit their failures.
- aroman 3y ago
  It’s not that they didn’t understand how to run a business… their refusal to accept “business help” was not because of inexperience or incompetence but because they didn’t believe it was compatible with their strongly idealistic perspective on business/capitalism/the world. I’m not sure they’re wrong.
  - groby_b 3y ago
    Here's the thing: You function in your environment, and you need your environment to function. And currently, some element of capitalism is required to build large-scale undertakings - if for no other reason than that the people you work with have families who'd like to eat, be housed, etc. You can fundamentally disagree with the system, but that means you opt out of all parts of it. And so they might not have been wrong about their belief system being incompatible with business/capitalism, but the idea that they could build something large without compromising was wrong. I, too, would like Fully Automated Luxury Space Communism - but you cannot get there from here by willing it to be true. (And it chafes me to say that, but that doesn't change the truth of it)
    - wolverine876 3y ago
      Lots of successful FOSS projects have no 'elements of capitalism', depending of course on how you define the latter. Same goes for much scientific research, and many other enterprises.
      - freedomben 3y ago
        I'm not disagreeing with you (yet at least), but can you name some of these successful FOSS projects with no elements of capitalism so I can better understand? The only ones I can think of definitely have some elements of capitalism, whether it's people using it at or for work, or contributing to it as part of a work dependency/project. But of course my limited recall is not evidence that it doesn't exist, so I'd be really interested to hear about some.
divbzero 3y ago
Ubuntu Budgie is closest thing to Elementary that I’ve found: https://ubuntubudgie.org https://ubuntubudgie.org Are there other alternatives to consider?
- blacksmith_tb 3y ago
  I am pretty happy with Pop!_OS[1], it's got a fair amount of polish, reasonable choices about snaps etc. 1: https://pop.system76.com/ https://pop.system76.com/
  - desireco42 3y ago
    PopOS rules for me, I enable tiling manager and I am golden...

by Andrex 3y ago

RamRodification 3y ago

News to me. Can I read up on this somewhere?

2143 3y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30611748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30611748
- RamRodification 3y ago
  Thanks
- LanternLight83 3y ago
  The linked article didn't use Danielle's name (which was well known at the time), giving the impression that the author either didn't do his research or was being intentionally malicious (existing beef? but def. bias). For what it's worth, eOS appears to be alive and well to me[1]. Please let me know if you have any other sources regarding the project's status, and I hope they keep sailing; love their work. 1: https://github.com/elementary/os/commits/master https://github.com/elementary/os/commits/master

digi59404 3y ago

> more a shame their funding model was very publicly debunked It wasn't just that, both the founders were very big socialist/communist people who didn't really understand how to run a business. They still don't. Elementary OS turned down numerous funding opportunities, numerous partnership opportunities. They made a really really great OS. But the business aspect was just atrocious. The "Pay what you want" model could have worked for their store. But just having a store in the beginning they didn't want one and then they pivoted to having one way late. There was big internal strife in the eOS Community amongst the developers for years, and very little conflict resolution on their part. I wouldn't say they're an example of a failed funding model. Rather, I'd say they're an example of people who have amazing talent and ideas, but refused business help and refused to admit their failures.

aroman 3y ago
It’s not that they didn’t understand how to run a business… their refusal to accept “business help” was not because of inexperience or incompetence but because they didn’t believe it was compatible with their strongly idealistic perspective on business/capitalism/the world. I’m not sure they’re wrong.
- groby_b 3y ago
  Here's the thing: You function in your environment, and you need your environment to function. And currently, some element of capitalism is required to build large-scale undertakings - if for no other reason than that the people you work with have families who'd like to eat, be housed, etc. You can fundamentally disagree with the system, but that means you opt out of all parts of it. And so they might not have been wrong about their belief system being incompatible with business/capitalism, but the idea that they could build something large without compromising was wrong. I, too, would like Fully Automated Luxury Space Communism - but you cannot get there from here by willing it to be true. (And it chafes me to say that, but that doesn't change the truth of it)
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    Lots of successful FOSS projects have no 'elements of capitalism', depending of course on how you define the latter. Same goes for much scientific research, and many other enterprises.
    - freedomben 3y ago
      I'm not disagreeing with you (yet at least), but can you name some of these successful FOSS projects with no elements of capitalism so I can better understand? The only ones I can think of definitely have some elements of capitalism, whether it's people using it at or for work, or contributing to it as part of a work dependency/project. But of course my limited recall is not evidence that it doesn't exist, so I'd be really interested to hear about some.

divbzero 3y ago

Ubuntu Budgie is closest thing to Elementary that I’ve found: https://ubuntubudgie.org https://ubuntubudgie.org Are there other alternatives to consider?

blacksmith_tb 3y ago
I am pretty happy with Pop!_OS[1], it's got a fair amount of polish, reasonable choices about snaps etc. 1: https://pop.system76.com/ https://pop.system76.com/
- desireco42 3y ago
  PopOS rules for me, I enable tiling manager and I am golden...