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This trend to try to make war more like startups is pretty disgusting. You notice this with the a16z "American Dynamism" war making arm, "move fast and break th

by hypeit 3y ago

This trend to try to make war more like startups is pretty disgusting. You notice this with the a16z "American Dynamism" war making arm, "move fast and break things" now means create weapons to terrorize people all over the planet for cash. There needs to be resistance to this movement from everyone in the industry.

a2xd94 3y ago
Most of the most important innovations in history (especially in the hardware and electronics space) were motivated by increasing defense capabilities, so although its great to pretend that humans can coexist peacefully, that is not the reality...and this also ignores the fact that many of these technologies can have positive impact on the world outside of the defense space, once they mature. Examples : ARPANET, semiconductors, radar, GPS, etc, etc, etc
- moffkalast 3y ago
  I'm sure mankind and fish can coexist peacefully at least. After all, Bush would never lie.
kspacewalk2 3y ago
A very fine sentiment to have while you live in safety under the umbrella of the most powerful military the world has ever known. However, consider the defence startup scene in Ukraine right now, for example. They are truly about moving fast and breaking things in an effort to protect their country from annexation, assimilation and (for those who don't go along) genocide. So, ironically, only when these weapons are there and have done their job do people appear, safe from birth till adulthood in their peaceful affluent little suburbs, who issue blanket condemnations of the defence industry as evil horrible people who produce weapons for the express purpose of "terrorizing people all over the planet for cash".
- Tommstein 3y ago
  "We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." - no one, probably [1], but the sentiment still stands [1] https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/11/07/rough-men/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/11/07/rough-men/
dartos 3y ago
Defense contracting is one of those things where it’s going to get done with or without you. No amount of protesting will stop it bc the govt won’t boycott defense companies. Would you rather those companies be startups whos employees are potentially more aware of the impact of what they’re building or just some big company that’s been making weapons since the MIC started? That’s the real decision imo.
- droopyEyelids 3y ago
  “If I dont do it, somebody else will” is a morally bankrupt and demonstrably false philosophy. There are limited people with any set of skills on the planet, and infinite things to be done. Where we choose to put our effort and attention determines what gets done. Its possible that if there is enough demand for something, someone else will do it, but no guarantee that it happens at all.
- hypeit 3y ago
  > Would you rather those companies be startups whos employees are potentially more aware of the impact of what they’re building or just some big company that’s been making weapons since the MIC started? I don't care what the mindset of the people making the weapons is, the end result is the same. If you help build the war machine, you are personally culpable for the damage it does. There is a limited labor market, our skills are in high demand. Protesting the creation of military tech can most definitely have a very real impact.
  - dartos 3y ago
    That’s totally fair. Unfortunately I don’t think protesting the military industrial complex does anything at all. Can you get literally every engineer or would-be engineer to agree not to make weapons given an enormous personal upside? It’s a prisoner’s dilemma. Someone will always take the paycheck and if _anyone_ does than the entire protest effort would’ve been for not bc the weapons still get made.
- snapplebobapple 3y ago
  That's not even the best reason. Violence is the guarantor of last resort for our choice of way of life. On long enough timeline this has historically always come down to who can do the most violence and there is nothing that implies this has or will change in the future (just a relatively long great power peace that has allowed more naive people to think the above is not true.) As a democracy with a relatively strong personal liberty slant i am pretty keen on that continuing to exist so i am pretty happy when i see companies trying to breakup the old and busted military contracting system.
rokkitmensch 3y ago
Surely you understand this perspective to be one of many in the plurality of worldviews.
- hypeit 3y ago
  I understand that there will always be people who want to create war for power and profit. Just like there will always be people who push for peace and not destroying the environment (c.f. depleted uranium). I happen to have skills that warmongers would find highly valuable but will not deploy them for military use. I will also advocate for others in our industry to do the same.
bostik 3y ago
To be fair, it is one of the few domains where "move fast and break people" is a perfectly acceptable strategy. After all, a good number of the people you plan to break are on the other side. Do unto others before the do unto you.

by hypeit 3y ago

a2xd94 3y ago

Most of the most important innovations in history (especially in the hardware and electronics space) were motivated by increasing defense capabilities, so although its great to pretend that humans can coexist peacefully, that is not the reality...and this also ignores the fact that many of these technologies can have positive impact on the world outside of the defense space, once they mature. Examples : ARPANET, semiconductors, radar, GPS, etc, etc, etc

moffkalast 3y ago
I'm sure mankind and fish can coexist peacefully at least. After all, Bush would never lie.

kspacewalk2 3y ago

A very fine sentiment to have while you live in safety under the umbrella of the most powerful military the world has ever known. However, consider the defence startup scene in Ukraine right now, for example. They are truly about moving fast and breaking things in an effort to protect their country from annexation, assimilation and (for those who don't go along) genocide. So, ironically, only when these weapons are there and have done their job do people appear, safe from birth till adulthood in their peaceful affluent little suburbs, who issue blanket condemnations of the defence industry as evil horrible people who produce weapons for the express purpose of "terrorizing people all over the planet for cash".

Tommstein 3y ago
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." - no one, probably [1], but the sentiment still stands [1] https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/11/07/rough-men/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/11/07/rough-men/

dartos 3y ago

Defense contracting is one of those things where it’s going to get done with or without you. No amount of protesting will stop it bc the govt won’t boycott defense companies. Would you rather those companies be startups whos employees are potentially more aware of the impact of what they’re building or just some big company that’s been making weapons since the MIC started? That’s the real decision imo.

droopyEyelids 3y ago
“If I dont do it, somebody else will” is a morally bankrupt and demonstrably false philosophy. There are limited people with any set of skills on the planet, and infinite things to be done. Where we choose to put our effort and attention determines what gets done. Its possible that if there is enough demand for something, someone else will do it, but no guarantee that it happens at all.
hypeit 3y ago
> Would you rather those companies be startups whos employees are potentially more aware of the impact of what they’re building or just some big company that’s been making weapons since the MIC started? I don't care what the mindset of the people making the weapons is, the end result is the same. If you help build the war machine, you are personally culpable for the damage it does. There is a limited labor market, our skills are in high demand. Protesting the creation of military tech can most definitely have a very real impact.
- dartos 3y ago
  That’s totally fair. Unfortunately I don’t think protesting the military industrial complex does anything at all. Can you get literally every engineer or would-be engineer to agree not to make weapons given an enormous personal upside? It’s a prisoner’s dilemma. Someone will always take the paycheck and if _anyone_ does than the entire protest effort would’ve been for not bc the weapons still get made.
snapplebobapple 3y ago
That's not even the best reason. Violence is the guarantor of last resort for our choice of way of life. On long enough timeline this has historically always come down to who can do the most violence and there is nothing that implies this has or will change in the future (just a relatively long great power peace that has allowed more naive people to think the above is not true.) As a democracy with a relatively strong personal liberty slant i am pretty keen on that continuing to exist so i am pretty happy when i see companies trying to breakup the old and busted military contracting system.

rokkitmensch 3y ago

Surely you understand this perspective to be one of many in the plurality of worldviews.

hypeit 3y ago
I understand that there will always be people who want to create war for power and profit. Just like there will always be people who push for peace and not destroying the environment (c.f. depleted uranium). I happen to have skills that warmongers would find highly valuable but will not deploy them for military use. I will also advocate for others in our industry to do the same.

bostik 3y ago

To be fair, it is one of the few domains where "move fast and break people" is a perfectly acceptable strategy. After all, a good number of the people you plan to break are on the other side. Do unto others before the do unto you.