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I've thought about this and I wonder why we couldn't have an exam model for education. One cost for the exam, and one for the prep program. If you wanted to you

I've thought about this and I wonder why we couldn't have an exam model for education. One cost for the exam, and one for the prep program. If you wanted to you could study at home on your own, and then just pay to take the test/get your essay graded. If you want, separate price for the study program guided by a professor. Driving works the same here, the test is run by the government, but there are various driving schools that you can sign up for to get prepped and get some practice.

imchillyb 3y ago
If the goal of higher-education is to educate persons, then the model you propose would seem to be in the best interests of citizens. If, however, the goal of higher-education is profiteering off the citizenry, then your model would prevent those profits from occurring. Which model do you believe the US follows, education, or profiteering? The answer is unsurprising and able to be gleaned from financial statements, and enrollment data alone.
maegul 3y ago
Absolutely agree. Part of the problem though is that this would reveal that undergraduate education and the universities that provide it can be thought of as merely a certifying process/body. Not quite the same glamour and prestige.
Eumenes 3y ago
The tuition/room/board and Aramark/Sodexo lobbies wouldn't like that!
aleph_minus_one 3y ago
You proposal has the built-in assumption that the central value that the university provides is the certificate at the end. I don't think this is true: a much more important value that at least good universities provide is having been exposed to the whole intellectual environment most of the days for years.
- brigadier132 3y ago
  Such a vanishingly small group of people actually take advantage of that. Most of them are partying and then taking the easiest electives for the easy A. We'd be better off just evaluating people on what they actually know. Not every university is MIT.
  - OkayPhysicist 3y ago
    I'd argue that the partying you're referring to is a facet of the biggest value-add of going to the best school you can get into and afford: meeting people of similar or higher social status. Private schools know this: you create a high barrier of entry via tuition, use that glut of cash to create an attractive environment, then use the excess from the rich kids to subsidize the smart kids. Now you've got a breeding ground where future founders can meet future investors. It's a win-win for everyone involved.
    - brigadier132 3y ago
      This perspective is completely detached from reality.
      - OkayPhysicist 3y ago
        That perspective is completely formed from my reality. I went to a private university for stupid reasons ("eh, it's closer to the beach than the public school"), witnessed first hand the advantages that the private school was offering me relative to my highschool friends who went the public school path, and took advantage of them. If your lived experience differs, maybe you should explain how, rather than dismissing mine out of hand.
        brigadier132 3y ago
        Your argument for university is that people might meet rich people that might essentially sponsor them. That is an absurd argument and again it's detached from reality and again the argument is just absurdly dumb since you are suggesting people that can't afford it should pay $40k a year for this privilege.
AnimalMuppet 3y ago
Western Governor's University is kind of in that direction. I mean, you get one cost for the course + exam, but at least you don't have a set schedule. If you can pass the exam on day 1, just take the exam.
cfeduke 3y ago
For several undergraduate courses, especially the preconditional courses for more advanced courses, there exist CLEP exams. I took a handful of these and got full credit while in the military - at the time they were $99 for each test, and my education command paid for them as a benefit. There could be a better system here, of course: for example if MIT offered a pay-per-exam for everything they released as open coursework and stood behind the accreditation. It doesn't have to be 1:1 for credits either, as an exam may not be representative of lab work when lab work is present.
deleted 3y ago
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imchillyb 3y ago

If the goal of higher-education is to educate persons, then the model you propose would seem to be in the best interests of citizens. If, however, the goal of higher-education is profiteering off the citizenry, then your model would prevent those profits from occurring. Which model do you believe the US follows, education, or profiteering? The answer is unsurprising and able to be gleaned from financial statements, and enrollment data alone.

maegul 3y ago

Absolutely agree. Part of the problem though is that this would reveal that undergraduate education and the universities that provide it can be thought of as merely a certifying process/body. Not quite the same glamour and prestige.

Eumenes 3y ago

The tuition/room/board and Aramark/Sodexo lobbies wouldn't like that!

aleph_minus_one 3y ago

You proposal has the built-in assumption that the central value that the university provides is the certificate at the end. I don't think this is true: a much more important value that at least good universities provide is having been exposed to the whole intellectual environment most of the days for years.

brigadier132 3y ago
Such a vanishingly small group of people actually take advantage of that. Most of them are partying and then taking the easiest electives for the easy A. We'd be better off just evaluating people on what they actually know. Not every university is MIT.
- OkayPhysicist 3y ago
  I'd argue that the partying you're referring to is a facet of the biggest value-add of going to the best school you can get into and afford: meeting people of similar or higher social status. Private schools know this: you create a high barrier of entry via tuition, use that glut of cash to create an attractive environment, then use the excess from the rich kids to subsidize the smart kids. Now you've got a breeding ground where future founders can meet future investors. It's a win-win for everyone involved.
  - brigadier132 3y ago
    This perspective is completely detached from reality.
    - OkayPhysicist 3y ago
      That perspective is completely formed from my reality. I went to a private university for stupid reasons ("eh, it's closer to the beach than the public school"), witnessed first hand the advantages that the private school was offering me relative to my highschool friends who went the public school path, and took advantage of them. If your lived experience differs, maybe you should explain how, rather than dismissing mine out of hand.
      - brigadier132 3y ago
        Your argument for university is that people might meet rich people that might essentially sponsor them. That is an absurd argument and again it's detached from reality and again the argument is just absurdly dumb since you are suggesting people that can't afford it should pay $40k a year for this privilege.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago

Western Governor's University is kind of in that direction. I mean, you get one cost for the course + exam, but at least you don't have a set schedule. If you can pass the exam on day 1, just take the exam.

cfeduke 3y ago

For several undergraduate courses, especially the preconditional courses for more advanced courses, there exist CLEP exams. I took a handful of these and got full credit while in the military - at the time they were $99 for each test, and my education command paid for them as a benefit. There could be a better system here, of course: for example if MIT offered a pay-per-exam for everything they released as open coursework and stood behind the accreditation. It doesn't have to be 1:1 for credits either, as an exam may not be representative of lab work when lab work is present.

deleted 3y ago

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