4 ms·

I think that is a good point to bring up, but it is orthogonal. Production moving overseas is not the same as technological advancement. One can be against out

I think that is a good point to bring up, but it is orthogonal. Production moving overseas is not the same as technological advancement. One can be against outsourcing but in favor of domestic technological progress.

tibbydudeza 3y ago
We all want our cheap TV's at Walmart but sadly people in general don't think of the bigger consequences of wanting low bargain basement prices for consumer good or paying low to little tax. Yet they complain about joblessness and how the education system and their neighborhood/towns are going to the balls.
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  Taxes is also a big part of why manufacturing is expensive in some places. If they were removed, the savings could be passed on to the customers.
  - supertimor 3y ago
    You really think that the savings will actually be passed onto the consumer rather than the company gobbling up that extra value? Also, if taxes are lowered on businesses, the tax burden will be passed to the working poor/middle class.
    - carlosjobim 3y ago
      > You really think that the savings will actually be passed onto the consumer rather than the company gobbling up that extra value? Absolutely yes. Compare gas prices in countries with high taxes on gas and countries with low taxes on gas. Compare products that are subject to vice taxes. It is not hypothetical, it's reality. > Also, if taxes are lowered on businesses, the tax burden will be passed to the working poor/middle class. All taxes on businesses are passed onto the consumers already. For businesses that sell products and services that everybody uses, that means the taxes are passed on the working poor and middle class. The only way to have taxes explicitly excluding the poor and middle class is to have tariffs on luxury goods, and maybe vice taxes since those products are not essential. There's no doubt that many company owners would try to use any tax reduction to make more profit for themselves, but that leaves space for competitors to take market share.
- yterdy 3y ago
  "We all want" Let me push back on that. We are all TOLD to want, using psychologically manipulative tactics. Advertising as corporate/Capitalist propaganda.
VHRanger 3y ago
It is in fact the same from the economic point if view. You are replacing labor input with capital input, whether it's buying a machine or offshoring the work. Workers offshore can be thought of as a machine. Not that it's bad either way! But the labor economics are the same.
creer 3y ago
It's exactly the same. It was a sudden upheaval of the established way to make a living. Not even very sudden. And responded to in the usual low-thought primary manner (except for a few places like Denmark). Few frames got broken, but lots of strikes no doubt contributed to accelerate the process even in cases where it shouldn't have been economically optimal.

tibbydudeza 3y ago

We all want our cheap TV's at Walmart but sadly people in general don't think of the bigger consequences of wanting low bargain basement prices for consumer good or paying low to little tax. Yet they complain about joblessness and how the education system and their neighborhood/towns are going to the balls.

carlosjobim 3y ago
Taxes is also a big part of why manufacturing is expensive in some places. If they were removed, the savings could be passed on to the customers.
- supertimor 3y ago
  You really think that the savings will actually be passed onto the consumer rather than the company gobbling up that extra value? Also, if taxes are lowered on businesses, the tax burden will be passed to the working poor/middle class.
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    > You really think that the savings will actually be passed onto the consumer rather than the company gobbling up that extra value? Absolutely yes. Compare gas prices in countries with high taxes on gas and countries with low taxes on gas. Compare products that are subject to vice taxes. It is not hypothetical, it's reality. > Also, if taxes are lowered on businesses, the tax burden will be passed to the working poor/middle class. All taxes on businesses are passed onto the consumers already. For businesses that sell products and services that everybody uses, that means the taxes are passed on the working poor and middle class. The only way to have taxes explicitly excluding the poor and middle class is to have tariffs on luxury goods, and maybe vice taxes since those products are not essential. There's no doubt that many company owners would try to use any tax reduction to make more profit for themselves, but that leaves space for competitors to take market share.
yterdy 3y ago
"We all want" Let me push back on that. We are all TOLD to want, using psychologically manipulative tactics. Advertising as corporate/Capitalist propaganda.

VHRanger 3y ago

It is in fact the same from the economic point if view. You are replacing labor input with capital input, whether it's buying a machine or offshoring the work. Workers offshore can be thought of as a machine. Not that it's bad either way! But the labor economics are the same.

creer 3y ago

It's exactly the same. It was a sudden upheaval of the established way to make a living. Not even very sudden. And responded to in the usual low-thought primary manner (except for a few places like Denmark). Few frames got broken, but lots of strikes no doubt contributed to accelerate the process even in cases where it shouldn't have been economically optimal.