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Oh the good old, violent Easter European bias mixed into crap science.
by Muromec 3y ago
Oh the good old, violent Easter European bias mixed into crap science.
- woof 3y agoSeems like the bias is on your part… Which is ironic, given the articles content…. Or do you have _evidence_?
- Muromec 3y agoNo, I don't have any bias, it's everybody else having biases. To be sure, I just checked how many times before I was biased (it's zero times), so I can't be now.
- fishnchips 3y agoThe username kinda suggests an Eastern European (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Muromets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Muromets) so I read the post as a personal opinion that the bias exists.
- coldtea 3y agoNot everything comes with evidence, nor is everything a court case. If you have experienced racism again and again though, you can often tell when you see it, or you can quite safely deduce it in a case or wrong treatment, even without hard proof.
- jauzj 3y ago[flagged]
- TRiG_Ireland 3y agoWell, now you've learned something.
- achenet 3y agoIf you happen to get a bit into the whole Nazi classification of races (don't, you almost certainly have something better to learn), you'll find that they made a distinction between Germanic "Aryan" types and Slavs.
- krapp 3y ago>Conflating racial prejudice with cultural prejudice is a cheap trick. Race is culture. There is no scientific or biological basis for the racial classifications we use. That whole framework was invented by European slave traders and imperialists to justify white supremacist ideology. At one point, Irish and Italian immigrants to the US weren't considered white. Whether Jews are white or not depends on one's opinion of them (they tend to become less white the more paranoid people become of them.) Greeks wouldn't be considered white by many people yet many white people also hold up ancient Greece as the bedrock of "white culture," which as a concept doesn't even really make sense. "Asian" defines half the human population, so broad as to be nearly useless. "Black" is a whole can of worms. None of it is scientific or objective, all of it is a social construct.
- coldtea 3y ago>Racism? I didn't know Romanians and Danes were of different races. Now you do. In the ideology of racism (from the 19th century to the Nazis and beyond) not only Romanians and Danes are of different races, but also Nordic/Germanic/Anglosaxon are of different race to Italians, Bulgarians, Greeks, and so on, including of course the Irish. With a long history of those (and more) not considerd "white" in the US, and being persecuted by the KKK and others. >Conflating racial prejudice with cultural prejudice is a cheap trick. Yes, god forbid we condemn prejudice as racial when in fact it's just prejudice because of their "inferior" culture. Of course, though, those two go hand-in-hand historically. For example, according to Nazi racism, Jews had a "damaging influence" on German culture, they promoted various forms of decadence and so on. And of course every modern racist would say they don't hate blacks as a race, just black culture and crime and so on.
- jauzj 3y ago[flagged]
- Dah00n 3y agoAnd yet they are wrong, so clearly evidence was needed.
- WarOnPrivacy 3y ago> If you have experienced racism again and again though, you can often tell when you see it, or you can quite safely deduce it in a case or wrong treatment, even without hard proof. There may be some overlap between systemic racial mistreatment and child abuse - however the nuances seem to set them far apart. I believe conflating the two makes it harder to get the full measure of each. It's not that they can't be compared. It's that they ought to be fully considered in isolation first.
- Matticus_Rex 3y agoWait, are there Europeans who don't acknowledge that this bias exists? In my experience with European colleagues and those who've traveled a lot there it's so universally-acknowledged that this would surprise me.
- raducu 3y agoIt could be, but communication issues could also be at play, plus overeager doctors/social workers. In Romania they go at great lengths not to pull children out of family environments, in Denmark and other more developed countries it could be the opposite.
- mike_hock 3y agoImplying ripping children out of their families willy-nilly is "more developed."
- haswell 3y agoDevelopment past a certain point is not universally a good thing. The term is used to describe the stages a country has been through, and there’s plenty of evidence that as countries develop further, the nature of those developments may or may not be beneficial. Brexit, online safety and other forms of “progress” come to mind.
- Dah00n 3y ago[flagged]
- mensetmanusman 3y agoIts tongue in cheek. Germany is developed, but you will get arrested if you try to homeschool your children.
- wincy 3y agoIt’s very important your children be taught whatever it is the government wants them to be taught! Which went very well for Germany in the 1930s…
- Chris2048 3y agob/c it's seen as a basic right, and issue of equality to have access to the same level of state education. The concept of "your" children is something of the problem.
- RektBoy 3y agoIt also because north Europe has one of the most toxic social services in the world, kidnapping kids 24/7. That's basically their job.
- andybak 3y agoWhatever core truth you're trying to express, wording it in this way isn't helpful.
- Dah00n 3y agoNo.
- lawlessone 3y agoSeen complaints/protests like this in my country. Then the adult children of the lady leading these protests spoke out against her and pointed out she was just doing it to get a house and embezzling a load of GoFundMe money. This wasn't SBS though, she just kept adopting out her kids to devote more time to her drug habits.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y agoThis is a difficult question I've been pondering between the UK/USA. Who has more authority over their children and in which domains? Medical providers, can they ruin kids' lives in various ways? It's easy to manipulate worried parents. Schools, do teachers have authority over their classroom, how much? Can they override parents, for example when rescuing them from anti-LGBT? Nobody trusts churches anymore, so that's not really a problem.
- the_af 3y ago> Oh the good old, violent Easter European bias mixed into crap science. Honest question, trying to parse your statement (and bear in mind I don't live in Europe, so I'm surely missing the obvious): do you mean that in Denmark there is a bias against Eastern Europeans, such as Romanians? Edit: excellent, got a downvote for asking an honest question and clarifying why I wrote it. Is this an example of the fine discourse we are supposed to have here? This is an honest question, I'm neither European nor a native English speaker and I have difficulty parsing the sentence I quoted. How on earth does this warrant downvotes?
- verteu 3y agoYes, that's what GP meant.
- thefounder 3y agoDomestic violence is still common in Eastern Europe(i.e Romania) so go figure why there is a bias against Eastern Europeans.
- benregenspan 3y agoDomestic violence is higher where poverty rates are higher. (I am not saying that poverty is the sole determinant, but it closely correlates). You will find pockets of higher domestic violence throughout the US. I don't think you can rationalize bias like this, people with ethnic prejudice will look for any apparent fact pattern to support their preconceived bias.
- raducu 3y agoI could not say I ever experienced it, but I have school-aged relatives that moved to Germany and received all sorts of crap from their peers explicitly for being romanians. Not a race thing because they're whiter than most germans( blonde, white, blue eyes).
- thatfrenchguy 3y agoIt’s not just in Denmark, most Europeans have a negative bias towards Romanian immigrants (mostly because they’re too ignorant to even know Romanians are not Roma).
- red_admiral 3y agoThere is a skin condition called Mongolian (Blue) Spot (wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_spot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_spot ) that doctors can mistake for an infant being beaten or otherwise abused. It has led to a lot of cases of false accusations and children being forcibly removed from their parents who were then charged with child abuse. According to Wikipedia, as to the distribution of this condition, > The birthmark is prevalent among East, South, Southeast, North and Central Asian peoples, Indigenous Oceanians (chiefly Micronesians and Polynesians), certain populations in Africa, Amerindians, non-European Latin Americans and Caribbeans of mixed-race descent. So you can see how, in a Western European nation, even if no-one is being biased in the sense of "hating foreigners", the false accusations would cluster in "non-indigenous" populations, for want of a better word (I originally had "immigrants" then realised that isn't the correct split I'm looking for.). Personally I believe there is no defense for doctors, courts and social workers not knowing about this and checking for it before making any accusations. This doesn't seem to apply to Romanians / Eastern Europeans specifically, unless they have partly Asian ancestry, but it does show that there are conditions that can be mistaken for abuse that appear in some cultures more than others.
- bitxbitxbitcoin 3y agoDamn that hits home. I’ve got a blue spot birthmark that was seen at elementary school which then led to child services showing up at home. This happened in the US and everyone involved was “non Indigenous.”
- red_admiral 3y agoSorry to hear that happened to you - and I realise that "indigenous" in the U.S. means the opposite to some of Europe, sorry! I'm guessing if some kind of Commanche social worker turned up to look at a case of blue spot, they'd go "Yeah that's a birthmark, about half our children have it, our nation even has legends about it. Have a nice day!".
- dang 3y agoWe detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37670664 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37670664.