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I think it's the other way around. Much of my early computer education was learned because I wanted to play games and my parents didn't know how to make them w

I think it's the other way around. Much of my early computer education was learned because I wanted to play games and my parents didn't know how to make them work. Making boot disks, etc. was a big part of my early exposure to computers. I played a lot of original Sim city, among other things, and organically over time I had devised , as a kid, a whole elaborate saving and naming system for my cities that involved versions and forking. Later, as an engineer in regulated industries, I've realized that what I built as a kid was a (nearly) ISO compliant revision and document management system. Factorio is fine. I'm worried about first person shooters, I think games where there is less intellectual aspect to them and more twitch reactive reflex stuff there is the less "good" it is for the players soul, and development.

deafpolygon 3y ago
Saying Factorio is fine and saying you're worried about first person shooters is contradictory. First person shooters may well breed the next gen of fighter pilots or snipers. Or maybe they'll enhance someone's dadflex and save a child from incoming danger. If you say Factorio is fine, then you can't say anything else is any different.
- iancmceachern 3y ago
  Because of the problem solving nature of its gameplay. It's like chess, or any other strategic game. There is a big argument that they teach us things. Just like team sports. It teaches us life skills. I argue that Factorio teaches more directly applicable life skills to the average person. Most jobs now involve solving some kind of problem using creativity and clicking/typing on a computer. Yes there are corner cases where it's nice to be a ninja. But most of us click and type on a computer all day solving problems a computer can't. First person shooters can be automated quite easily and have been, playing factorio, chess, etc. Are different. Yes they can still be automated, but it's clearly a higher bar.
  - deafpolygon 3y ago
    That's clearly a bias on your end. Factorio is no more of a problem-solving game than a first-person shooter is. There is a lot going on in a player's mind when playing FPS that may not be obvious, such as planning ahead, quick thinking and anticipating the opponents' movements. Those are also valuable skills that can be applied to many areas of life. Take Overwatch for example. There are role-based characters that fill a specific function in the game that require thinking, planning, and experience. It is also a team sport that teaches life skills. I do not see how automation can 'solve' that for you. It is not just purely finding the thing on the screen and clicking on it. They are not just solely twitch-based reactionary games. As with anything in life, too much chess/Factorio/etc. can also be detrimental. Balance is key.
    - iancmceachern 3y ago
      Why are bots so readily available for nearly every FPS game? Why are there no bots for Factorio, etc?
      - deafpolygon 3y ago
        bots may help you aim, but they don't replace real skill at playing in a team. if you'd play an fps, you'd know that.
      - JambalayaJim 3y ago
        What’s the point of a bot for Factorio? It’a not multiplayer right?
        fragmede 3y ago
        If you've not collaboratively built a Factorio factory, have you even lived?
        JambalayaJim 3y ago
        Cheating in a collaborative game seems even more pointless lol.
Grimblewald 3y ago
First person shooters are more like chess than they are murder simulators. The difference between a fps and chess is time scale and scale of moving parts. This means you are dealing more directly with human elements than game system elements. Twitchy reflexes are a part of shooters, and something I relied on in my youth more heavily but as I age I find myself having to rely more and more on anticipating human behaviours, well in advance of ever getting my first bit of info on my opponents actions. Fps games have an undeniable strategic element that goes quite deep, not from a mechanical point of view but an interpersonal one. Strategies that worked last night won't in tonight's meta and so on. Chess moves far more slowly than fps games do and sometimes I want to test myself and see how quickly I can learn, adapt to, and exploit behavioural patterns in a crowd of anonymous people. Where chess tests your prediction depth, if you will, fps tests your prediction breadth.

deafpolygon 3y ago

Saying Factorio is fine and saying you're worried about first person shooters is contradictory. First person shooters may well breed the next gen of fighter pilots or snipers. Or maybe they'll enhance someone's dadflex and save a child from incoming danger. If you say Factorio is fine, then you can't say anything else is any different.

iancmceachern 3y ago
Because of the problem solving nature of its gameplay. It's like chess, or any other strategic game. There is a big argument that they teach us things. Just like team sports. It teaches us life skills. I argue that Factorio teaches more directly applicable life skills to the average person. Most jobs now involve solving some kind of problem using creativity and clicking/typing on a computer. Yes there are corner cases where it's nice to be a ninja. But most of us click and type on a computer all day solving problems a computer can't. First person shooters can be automated quite easily and have been, playing factorio, chess, etc. Are different. Yes they can still be automated, but it's clearly a higher bar.
- deafpolygon 3y ago
  That's clearly a bias on your end. Factorio is no more of a problem-solving game than a first-person shooter is. There is a lot going on in a player's mind when playing FPS that may not be obvious, such as planning ahead, quick thinking and anticipating the opponents' movements. Those are also valuable skills that can be applied to many areas of life. Take Overwatch for example. There are role-based characters that fill a specific function in the game that require thinking, planning, and experience. It is also a team sport that teaches life skills. I do not see how automation can 'solve' that for you. It is not just purely finding the thing on the screen and clicking on it. They are not just solely twitch-based reactionary games. As with anything in life, too much chess/Factorio/etc. can also be detrimental. Balance is key.
  - iancmceachern 3y ago
    Why are bots so readily available for nearly every FPS game? Why are there no bots for Factorio, etc?
    - deafpolygon 3y ago
      bots may help you aim, but they don't replace real skill at playing in a team. if you'd play an fps, you'd know that.
    - JambalayaJim 3y ago
      What’s the point of a bot for Factorio? It’a not multiplayer right?
      - fragmede 3y ago
        If you've not collaboratively built a Factorio factory, have you even lived?
        JambalayaJim 3y ago
        Cheating in a collaborative game seems even more pointless lol.

Grimblewald 3y ago

First person shooters are more like chess than they are murder simulators. The difference between a fps and chess is time scale and scale of moving parts. This means you are dealing more directly with human elements than game system elements. Twitchy reflexes are a part of shooters, and something I relied on in my youth more heavily but as I age I find myself having to rely more and more on anticipating human behaviours, well in advance of ever getting my first bit of info on my opponents actions. Fps games have an undeniable strategic element that goes quite deep, not from a mechanical point of view but an interpersonal one. Strategies that worked last night won't in tonight's meta and so on. Chess moves far more slowly than fps games do and sometimes I want to test myself and see how quickly I can learn, adapt to, and exploit behavioural patterns in a crowd of anonymous people. Where chess tests your prediction depth, if you will, fps tests your prediction breadth.