3 ms·

I have similar feelings. Apple did a wonderful job with M1/M2, but on the software side, I have mixed feelings. Xcode is a mess, and Swift UI is not a complete

I have similar feelings. Apple did a wonderful job with M1/M2, but on the software side, I have mixed feelings. Xcode is a mess, and Swift UI is not a complete replacement for Cocoa. And on the OS side, I feel like Apple is creating features that I instantly disable because they do the exact opposite of what I want.

bingemaker 3y ago
XCode is refusing to install. Fails with some error, and asks me to download XCode again. Also now the system needs 70-80 GB of free space to install XCode. One of the funny upgrades so far
- icedchai 3y ago
  There is definitely something buggy going on there. It took 2 attempts for it to install for me! No errors, it just stopped installing somewhere around 90%. Plenty of free disks space and RAM.
  - saagarjha 3y ago
    Are you using a XIP to install?
    - icedchai 3y ago
      No, I was using the App Store "update"...
  - chatmasta 3y ago
    Are you sure it actually stopped installing? When I installed XCode for the first time a few months ago, there was a 20-30 minute period where it was completely silent. Ultimately I was able to tail some syslog from the app store daemon that indicated it was actually doing something (downloading dependencies and validating their signatures, IIRC). But I almost restarted the computer thinking it wasn't working.
    - icedchai 3y ago
      It definitely stopped installing! It was showing the "old" version in the App Store updates, and I was able to start the install again.
- saagarjha 3y ago
  $ du -hs /Applications/Xcode.app/ 4.5G /Applications/Xcode.app/ You definitely should not need that much space.
Hammershaft 3y ago
Apple's hardware is incredible but the software is increasingly grating for any kind of power usage. Xcode is frustrating, the permissions system is flagrantly designed for Apple's self interest, window, monitor, and app management is rife with ancient bugs and half baked design decisions.
- bzzzt 3y ago
  But what's the alternative? Windows has also become incredibly grating with even more telemetry and commercial offerings embedded in the OS (especially the home versions). If you think of macOS as 'half baked' I'm curious what you think of Linux distributions with their infighting about everything from the desktop and graphics stack to which tool should start up system services. There's even less internal consistency there.
  - absrec 3y ago
    I've had almost 0 problems being a power user with a KDE Plasma Arch Linux. There is internal consistency in distro lineups. Linux is not one OS. You can have the telemetry ridden but more accessible Ubuntu experience to the extremely fast and barebones Xfce Arch experience, it's your choice.
    - alluro2 3y ago
      I've been someone who used Windows, MacOS and around 20 Linux distros extensively across many laptops / PCs. Always tempering, endless configuration, customization, frustration with Windows instability, MacOS inflexibility or e.g. needing to spend days so my audio works on Linux. A couple of years ago, I picked up Thinkpad P1 (Ryzen 4800U) and got settled with Arch + Plasma. I've never before had such a snappy, quiet, stable, 3 monitors, all hardware and software just working, fully customized, and empowering experience of using a computer and went years without needing to touch anything - as it was perfect. It ended when I couldn't resist a new MBP 14, but I've been slowly accumulating nostalgia for my Linux setup since and will surely get back to it, hopefully when Asahi Linux completes support for external monitors.
  - 3y ago
AHTERIX5000 3y ago
Xcode is a mess in many fronts. For example my Xcode updated automatically to a version which couldn't support Ventura anymore, the OS I'm still running. I had to uninstall the app store version and manually download older one to fix the situation.
- tempodox 3y ago
  Friends don't let friends install Xcode from the AppStore.
MichaelZuo 3y ago
Is SwiftUI supposed to be a complete replacement of Cocoa in 2023? I thought that was a nebulous goal for the distant future?
- Tagbert 3y ago
  It is not, yet, a full replacement. You can use Swift UI for some kinds of apps but there are UIs that are still harder in it. Apple acknolwedges that some people still need to use Appkit. It’s clear that their long term plan is to build out Swift UI to be enough to fully replace the older libraries.
crossroadsguy 3y ago
You are being utterly charitable by saying you’ve mixed feelings about Apple’s software prowess (or rather lack of).

bingemaker 3y ago

XCode is refusing to install. Fails with some error, and asks me to download XCode again. Also now the system needs 70-80 GB of free space to install XCode. One of the funny upgrades so far

icedchai 3y ago
There is definitely something buggy going on there. It took 2 attempts for it to install for me! No errors, it just stopped installing somewhere around 90%. Plenty of free disks space and RAM.
- saagarjha 3y ago
  Are you using a XIP to install?
  - icedchai 3y ago
    No, I was using the App Store "update"...
- chatmasta 3y ago
  Are you sure it actually stopped installing? When I installed XCode for the first time a few months ago, there was a 20-30 minute period where it was completely silent. Ultimately I was able to tail some syslog from the app store daemon that indicated it was actually doing something (downloading dependencies and validating their signatures, IIRC). But I almost restarted the computer thinking it wasn't working.
  - icedchai 3y ago
    It definitely stopped installing! It was showing the "old" version in the App Store updates, and I was able to start the install again.
saagarjha 3y ago
$ du -hs /Applications/Xcode.app/ 4.5G /Applications/Xcode.app/ You definitely should not need that much space.

Hammershaft 3y ago

Apple's hardware is incredible but the software is increasingly grating for any kind of power usage. Xcode is frustrating, the permissions system is flagrantly designed for Apple's self interest, window, monitor, and app management is rife with ancient bugs and half baked design decisions.

bzzzt 3y ago
But what's the alternative? Windows has also become incredibly grating with even more telemetry and commercial offerings embedded in the OS (especially the home versions). If you think of macOS as 'half baked' I'm curious what you think of Linux distributions with their infighting about everything from the desktop and graphics stack to which tool should start up system services. There's even less internal consistency there.
- absrec 3y ago
  I've had almost 0 problems being a power user with a KDE Plasma Arch Linux. There is internal consistency in distro lineups. Linux is not one OS. You can have the telemetry ridden but more accessible Ubuntu experience to the extremely fast and barebones Xfce Arch experience, it's your choice.
  - alluro2 3y ago
    I've been someone who used Windows, MacOS and around 20 Linux distros extensively across many laptops / PCs. Always tempering, endless configuration, customization, frustration with Windows instability, MacOS inflexibility or e.g. needing to spend days so my audio works on Linux. A couple of years ago, I picked up Thinkpad P1 (Ryzen 4800U) and got settled with Arch + Plasma. I've never before had such a snappy, quiet, stable, 3 monitors, all hardware and software just working, fully customized, and empowering experience of using a computer and went years without needing to touch anything - as it was perfect. It ended when I couldn't resist a new MBP 14, but I've been slowly accumulating nostalgia for my Linux setup since and will surely get back to it, hopefully when Asahi Linux completes support for external monitors.
- 3y ago

AHTERIX5000 3y ago

Xcode is a mess in many fronts. For example my Xcode updated automatically to a version which couldn't support Ventura anymore, the OS I'm still running. I had to uninstall the app store version and manually download older one to fix the situation.

tempodox 3y ago
Friends don't let friends install Xcode from the AppStore.

MichaelZuo 3y ago

Is SwiftUI supposed to be a complete replacement of Cocoa in 2023? I thought that was a nebulous goal for the distant future?

Tagbert 3y ago
It is not, yet, a full replacement. You can use Swift UI for some kinds of apps but there are UIs that are still harder in it. Apple acknolwedges that some people still need to use Appkit. It’s clear that their long term plan is to build out Swift UI to be enough to fully replace the older libraries.

crossroadsguy 3y ago

You are being utterly charitable by saying you’ve mixed feelings about Apple’s software prowess (or rather lack of).