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I agree with your points about Tex as a specific case (I didn't know about improvement made over time before), but let me see if I am understanding how your com

I agree with your points about Tex as a specific case (I didn't know about improvement made over time before), but let me see if I am understanding how your comment relates to the general point correctly. Are you saying that "modern" is a fine label because of the hollowing? - Times change - Requirements changes - Expectations change And that, when something is described as "modern" (compared to its "outdated" predecessors), that's because it tries to address changing times? I'm not sure that this is true (I don't know one way or another) when it comes to common usages of the word "modern" as applied to software. I don't think there is any harm in being more precise about what improvements have been made so it's clear to readers/consumers. (My mind doesn't automatically equate "modern" with the things you've listed, and that's likely the case for other people too.)

cratermoon 3y ago
OK, so now you're arguing the meaning of "modern", but perhaps you should refine your original point. Do you have specific examples of incorrect applications of the label "modern"? Are you just objecting to vagueness?
- zogrodea 3y ago
  I didn’t write the very first post we’re all commenting on, but I think the objection to vagueness is in that very first post. “My point is that ‘modern’ can sometimes be a vague and overused term. Instead of relying on this label, it's more informative to understand what specific technologies, practices, or improvements a project brings to the table.” I don't have any stats to bring up to decisively say one way or another, but people express discontent about modern JS framework churn, yearning for server-side templates solutions of old and other complaints about "modern" software. That might or might not be misguided, but it exists.
  - cratermoon 3y ago
    If the objection is "don't use the term ’modern’ as if it automatically means better”, I agree, but there are also other terms that are essentially marketing speak, and not just for software. Right now we're seeing a rash of “AI-enabled” claims, as if just evoking that two-letter acronym is a selling point. Even words that once had specific meanings, like "agile" or "smart" (as in smart homes, smart cars, smartwatches, etc) have been co-opted as some kind of feel-good claim. The OP seems to argue for describing the concrete and specific benefits and risks of technologies and practices, and comparing those with the organization's goals and problems. I stand by my suggestion to tighten up the the original observation and provide more specifics for “modern” when used vaguely. What connotations have become associated with the term, and what implications are problematic when using “modern”?

cratermoon 3y ago

OK, so now you're arguing the meaning of "modern", but perhaps you should refine your original point. Do you have specific examples of incorrect applications of the label "modern"? Are you just objecting to vagueness?

zogrodea 3y ago
I didn’t write the very first post we’re all commenting on, but I think the objection to vagueness is in that very first post. “My point is that ‘modern’ can sometimes be a vague and overused term. Instead of relying on this label, it's more informative to understand what specific technologies, practices, or improvements a project brings to the table.” I don't have any stats to bring up to decisively say one way or another, but people express discontent about modern JS framework churn, yearning for server-side templates solutions of old and other complaints about "modern" software. That might or might not be misguided, but it exists.
- cratermoon 3y ago
  If the objection is "don't use the term ’modern’ as if it automatically means better”, I agree, but there are also other terms that are essentially marketing speak, and not just for software. Right now we're seeing a rash of “AI-enabled” claims, as if just evoking that two-letter acronym is a selling point. Even words that once had specific meanings, like "agile" or "smart" (as in smart homes, smart cars, smartwatches, etc) have been co-opted as some kind of feel-good claim. The OP seems to argue for describing the concrete and specific benefits and risks of technologies and practices, and comparing those with the organization's goals and problems. I stand by my suggestion to tighten up the the original observation and provide more specifics for “modern” when used vaguely. What connotations have become associated with the term, and what implications are problematic when using “modern”?