5 ms·

It’s 2023. You can just search #boost on TikTok. I think consequences will serve as a better deterrent.

wkat4242 3y ago
Well clearly your system is failing at it with huge rates of incarceration and recidivism. The consequences are heavier than other countries but crime is even higher. And it's not about finding the knowledge. It's about constantly getting slapped in the face with it every day by being surrounded by people that don't even know anything else. It normalizes it. Maybe it's time to look beyond the instinctive kneejerk response and see what really works.
- zo1 3y ago
  And until we find this glorious and wonderful solution that is claimed to exist? We're expected to live in hell and surrounded by examples of how crime pays. We talk about how jail teaches criminals and hardens them, but what about all the opportunists seeing how they can just get free stuff without work. We substituted one failure for another, and made it worse for everyone overall. There is no way to justify this lawlessness, unless you want to hasten our demise into UBI serfdom.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    > And until we find this glorious and wonderful solution that is claimed to exist? We're expected to live in hell and surrounded by examples of how crime pays. Maybe look at about every other first-world country in the world where it works a lot better. There's not many first-world countries that have crime levels this heavy and especially hardened violent and organised crime. It could be caused by not just the penal system but also societal norms, income differences etc. A holistic approach is needed. > We talk about how jail teaches criminals and hardens them, but what about all the opportunists seeing how they can just get free stuff without work. We substituted one failure for another, and made it worse for everyone overall. I think this is part of the problem, the strong American aversion to any kind of government assistance to people that need it "because they don't work". It leads to really disadvantaged groups that in turn feel like outcasts and start behaving as such.
    - prepend 3y ago
      > A holistic approach is needed. The challenge I see is that I agree with you, don’t know what to do, and no one seems to be proposing viable solutions. Yes, it would be great to achieve what other “first-world” countries do to have such low crime. But what do we do? What seems to be happening now is you have some locations stopping prosecution, crimes going up, businesses closing. People who don’t like crime, and can afford it, moving to suburbs. Or exurbs even with remote work. These suburbs not only prosecute, but execute. I live in a suburb that activated the national guard because they thought people might riot and loot the lululemon. That’s an overreaction, I think. But the lululemon was not looted and it remains open. I fear that in 10 years we’ll have a spiral of crime areas and rich people areas. I have little sympathy for the criminals, but the vast majority of people are good and can’t afford a $500k 2 bedroom condo in the burbs just to be able to get groceries and overpriced home goods from target. When given a choice between 1) vote for change and wait and 2) vote for change and move to a secure location; I think people will continue to choose #2.
    - HDThoreaun 3y ago
      American culture is very unique among western countries. The cowboy archetype is still largely the embodiment of American culture and it focuses on individualism to an extreme and often toxic level. This focus on individualism over collectivism without any second thought has led to a culture that accepts rule breaking in a way that most others do not. It's much more complicated than "just do the same thing all the other countries do"
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    > And until we find this glorious and wonderful solution that is claimed to exist? We're expected to live in hell and surrounded by examples of how crime pays. Live in hell? Are we still talking about shoplifting? Maybe society is finally getting some perspective and collectively deciding that someone walking out of a multi-billion dollar company with a shopping cart full of booze is just not that big of a problem to be solved in comparison to the actual problems actually affecting people.
earthling8118 3y ago
You can think that all you want. It's still wrong. It isn't working. At all.

Well clearly your system is failing at it with huge rates of incarceration and recidivism. The consequences are heavier than other countries but crime is even higher. And it's not about finding the knowledge. It's about constantly getting slapped in the face with it every day by being surrounded by people that don't even know anything else. It normalizes it. Maybe it's time to look beyond the instinctive kneejerk response and see what really works.

zo1 3y ago
And until we find this glorious and wonderful solution that is claimed to exist? We're expected to live in hell and surrounded by examples of how crime pays. We talk about how jail teaches criminals and hardens them, but what about all the opportunists seeing how they can just get free stuff without work. We substituted one failure for another, and made it worse for everyone overall. There is no way to justify this lawlessness, unless you want to hasten our demise into UBI serfdom.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  > And until we find this glorious and wonderful solution that is claimed to exist? We're expected to live in hell and surrounded by examples of how crime pays. Maybe look at about every other first-world country in the world where it works a lot better. There's not many first-world countries that have crime levels this heavy and especially hardened violent and organised crime. It could be caused by not just the penal system but also societal norms, income differences etc. A holistic approach is needed. > We talk about how jail teaches criminals and hardens them, but what about all the opportunists seeing how they can just get free stuff without work. We substituted one failure for another, and made it worse for everyone overall. I think this is part of the problem, the strong American aversion to any kind of government assistance to people that need it "because they don't work". It leads to really disadvantaged groups that in turn feel like outcasts and start behaving as such.
  - prepend 3y ago
    > A holistic approach is needed. The challenge I see is that I agree with you, don’t know what to do, and no one seems to be proposing viable solutions. Yes, it would be great to achieve what other “first-world” countries do to have such low crime. But what do we do? What seems to be happening now is you have some locations stopping prosecution, crimes going up, businesses closing. People who don’t like crime, and can afford it, moving to suburbs. Or exurbs even with remote work. These suburbs not only prosecute, but execute. I live in a suburb that activated the national guard because they thought people might riot and loot the lululemon. That’s an overreaction, I think. But the lululemon was not looted and it remains open. I fear that in 10 years we’ll have a spiral of crime areas and rich people areas. I have little sympathy for the criminals, but the vast majority of people are good and can’t afford a $500k 2 bedroom condo in the burbs just to be able to get groceries and overpriced home goods from target. When given a choice between 1) vote for change and wait and 2) vote for change and move to a secure location; I think people will continue to choose #2.
  - HDThoreaun 3y ago
    American culture is very unique among western countries. The cowboy archetype is still largely the embodiment of American culture and it focuses on individualism to an extreme and often toxic level. This focus on individualism over collectivism without any second thought has led to a culture that accepts rule breaking in a way that most others do not. It's much more complicated than "just do the same thing all the other countries do"
- ryandrake 3y ago
  > And until we find this glorious and wonderful solution that is claimed to exist? We're expected to live in hell and surrounded by examples of how crime pays. Live in hell? Are we still talking about shoplifting? Maybe society is finally getting some perspective and collectively deciding that someone walking out of a multi-billion dollar company with a shopping cart full of booze is just not that big of a problem to be solved in comparison to the actual problems actually affecting people.

earthling8118 3y ago

You can think that all you want. It's still wrong. It isn't working. At all.