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> Companies already send that clear message even without AI. Companies are people. You are saying people running those companies are doing that to other people

by nico 3y ago

andsoitis 3y ago
> Companies are people. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. - Aristotle Companies exhibit emergent behavior that might be hard, if at all possible, to predict if you only had a single individual as reference. For instance, most individuals would probably never agree to manufacture a weapon that is specifically requested to kill your neighbor. However, this same individual will show no empathy and remorse for their labor in a company that produces something that is used to commit incredible destruction to the earth, even contributing to the deaths of millions of people.
- selestify 3y ago
  > For instance, most individuals would probably never agree to manufacture a weapon that is specifically requested to kill your neighbor. Are you talking about gun manufacturing for law enforcement or military purposes? Because those weapons aren’t manufactured to kill one specific person (my neighbor). If somehow the government were to pay me adequately to hand-craft a gun for the police or military, I would have no moral compunctions in doing so. I see no reason for the government to ask me to hand-make an inferior good at such high cost, though.
- chromoblob 3y ago
  Which is obviously irrational, so maybe we shouldn't care about such individuals, at least in long term.
FrustratedMonky 3y ago
Companies are people, but not free from duress. Duress of having to eat, having a mortgage, having tuition, debt. Everyone has a boss, and a budget to hit. It is the Banality of Evil. US corporations are full of layers of Middle management made of "Eichmann"s. Be it violating environmental laws on dumping, covering up sexual abuse, or sending people to ovens. It happens, has happened, and will get worse. And yes, it will be done by humans to other humans.
- nico 3y ago
  Are you then suggesting that it doesn’t matter? That we should just shrug and give up? Or that we should just allow for any group of people to do anything to another group of people, because it just happens, it’s just human nature, so whatever? I guess that’s kind of the way the US has been going for a while now
  - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
    Nothing I said even hinted at giving up. Just because humans tend to create systems that tend to reward evil doesn't mean we can't try to be better. The problem isn't capitalism or communism. Both are run by humans who could choose to be better. I don't know how to improve humans. I know it isn't religion given it's tendency to just become another system that rewards evil. Maybe it is just groups, humans don't do well in large hierarchies. But not saying to give up, maybe just saying, stop arguing about capitalism versus communism, since they both can be good or bad depending on the humans that make it up.
    - nico 3y ago
      And who said anything about capitalism vs communism? Seems like you are just arguing with yourself there
      - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
        Who? The entire thread, it is a common theme, in this post and every other post on AI. Sorry I was speaking outside you're singular comment.
pixl97 3y ago
Oh boy, if you have an hour of time, maybe you should think about reading Meditations on Moloch https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/
JohnFen 3y ago
Companies are not people. They are engines of economic production that use people as one of their resources.
- nico 3y ago
  You can conceptualice them however you want, but without people there are no companies Companies are a completely made up concept. Made up by, you guessed it, people People create them, people run them, people decide what to do with them It’s the same for any organization It’s people all the way down

> Companies already send that clear message even without AI. Companies are people. You are saying people running those companies are doing that to other people

by nico 3y ago

> Companies already send that clear message even without AI. Companies are people. You are saying people running those companies are doing that to other people

andsoitis 3y ago

> Companies are people. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. - Aristotle Companies exhibit emergent behavior that might be hard, if at all possible, to predict if you only had a single individual as reference. For instance, most individuals would probably never agree to manufacture a weapon that is specifically requested to kill your neighbor. However, this same individual will show no empathy and remorse for their labor in a company that produces something that is used to commit incredible destruction to the earth, even contributing to the deaths of millions of people.

selestify 3y ago
> For instance, most individuals would probably never agree to manufacture a weapon that is specifically requested to kill your neighbor. Are you talking about gun manufacturing for law enforcement or military purposes? Because those weapons aren’t manufactured to kill one specific person (my neighbor). If somehow the government were to pay me adequately to hand-craft a gun for the police or military, I would have no moral compunctions in doing so. I see no reason for the government to ask me to hand-make an inferior good at such high cost, though.
chromoblob 3y ago
Which is obviously irrational, so maybe we shouldn't care about such individuals, at least in long term.

FrustratedMonky 3y ago

Companies are people, but not free from duress. Duress of having to eat, having a mortgage, having tuition, debt. Everyone has a boss, and a budget to hit. It is the Banality of Evil. US corporations are full of layers of Middle management made of "Eichmann"s. Be it violating environmental laws on dumping, covering up sexual abuse, or sending people to ovens. It happens, has happened, and will get worse. And yes, it will be done by humans to other humans.

nico 3y ago
Are you then suggesting that it doesn’t matter? That we should just shrug and give up? Or that we should just allow for any group of people to do anything to another group of people, because it just happens, it’s just human nature, so whatever? I guess that’s kind of the way the US has been going for a while now
- FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  Nothing I said even hinted at giving up. Just because humans tend to create systems that tend to reward evil doesn't mean we can't try to be better. The problem isn't capitalism or communism. Both are run by humans who could choose to be better. I don't know how to improve humans. I know it isn't religion given it's tendency to just become another system that rewards evil. Maybe it is just groups, humans don't do well in large hierarchies. But not saying to give up, maybe just saying, stop arguing about capitalism versus communism, since they both can be good or bad depending on the humans that make it up.
  - nico 3y ago
    And who said anything about capitalism vs communism? Seems like you are just arguing with yourself there
    - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
      Who? The entire thread, it is a common theme, in this post and every other post on AI. Sorry I was speaking outside you're singular comment.

pixl97 3y ago

Oh boy, if you have an hour of time, maybe you should think about reading Meditations on Moloch https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

JohnFen 3y ago

Companies are not people. They are engines of economic production that use people as one of their resources.

nico 3y ago
You can conceptualice them however you want, but without people there are no companies Companies are a completely made up concept. Made up by, you guessed it, people People create them, people run them, people decide what to do with them It’s the same for any organization It’s people all the way down