4 ms·

>Given what the "top" of society looks like currently, the Luddites were correct to be skeptical of technology I much prefer modern society over what they had.

>Given what the "top" of society looks like currently, the Luddites were correct to be skeptical of technology I much prefer modern society over what they had. Commonly available running water, electricity, heating, insulation, the internet are some pretty nice things. >You need a nation who cares more about its people than its GDP to achieve that, and I posit no nation on Earth has that level of care for its people. And it will come at the expense of future generations. All the advancements of yesterday are what make our modern comforts possible. If we stop that in some redistribution fantasy then tomorrow will not be an improvement over today.

jprete 3y ago
> I much prefer modern society over what they had. Commonly available running water, electricity, heating, insulation, the internet are some pretty nice things. This is totally, completely, utterly irrelevant to the GP's point.
- selestify 3y ago
  It is not irrelevant because higher GDP is exactly what enables many of the conveniences of modern society. Nations ignoring GDP would mean putting access to these amenities at risk as well.
pixl97 3y ago
Do you live in a binary world, or an analog one? I mean, if you believe you live in a binary world everything is pretty easy. It's a one or a zero. Capitalism, or some kind of hellish pit of communism. That is not the real world. Instead it is a moderation of forces. Capitalist robber barons would enslave you just as quickly as the most brutal authoritarian would, if allowed. We succeed not because we let the captains of industry do what they like, for we know their greed can never be sated. Instead we have we share are progress in a way that benefits humanity and not the few. We strive to make the world better and not just ourselves richer.
- Aerroon 3y ago
  Then how did this current world order come to pass? There is no inherent force at play or divine will that stops those "robber barons" from doing all of that. The government isn't given onto us by the almighty, it's something people created and upkeep. Those same instincts that created that would also moderate all of the evil you think people would do.
  - zlg_codes 3y ago
    Why do you have so much trust in humankind? Have you not read any history? It's very hard for me to take the "wisdom of crowds" or even of antiquity seriously, when doctors used to think it ungentlemanly to wash their damn hands before and after surgery! We put radium on shit because it glowed, without adequately studying why until women's jaws were deteriorating in their faces. We put asbestos on shit to prevent fires, but oopsie poopsie, better not breathe any in! And man, those knocking engines just need a little heavy metals to settle down. Whoops, IQ just noticeably dropped? Oh well. History shows us that humankind, even when assembled and "organized" is always a day late and a dollar short to averting disaster. Nothing ever happens of import until something unavoidable and existentially threatening happens. That's when, magically, we'll be "friends" and "allies" and talk about "camaraderie". As soon as disaster is averted, they go back to being assholes to each other, just like during COVID-19. What, pray tell, do you think humankind was able to do about evil in the past 5 years?

jprete 3y ago

> I much prefer modern society over what they had. Commonly available running water, electricity, heating, insulation, the internet are some pretty nice things. This is totally, completely, utterly irrelevant to the GP's point.

selestify 3y ago
It is not irrelevant because higher GDP is exactly what enables many of the conveniences of modern society. Nations ignoring GDP would mean putting access to these amenities at risk as well.

pixl97 3y ago

Do you live in a binary world, or an analog one? I mean, if you believe you live in a binary world everything is pretty easy. It's a one or a zero. Capitalism, or some kind of hellish pit of communism. That is not the real world. Instead it is a moderation of forces. Capitalist robber barons would enslave you just as quickly as the most brutal authoritarian would, if allowed. We succeed not because we let the captains of industry do what they like, for we know their greed can never be sated. Instead we have we share are progress in a way that benefits humanity and not the few. We strive to make the world better and not just ourselves richer.

Aerroon 3y ago
Then how did this current world order come to pass? There is no inherent force at play or divine will that stops those "robber barons" from doing all of that. The government isn't given onto us by the almighty, it's something people created and upkeep. Those same instincts that created that would also moderate all of the evil you think people would do.
- zlg_codes 3y ago
  Why do you have so much trust in humankind? Have you not read any history? It's very hard for me to take the "wisdom of crowds" or even of antiquity seriously, when doctors used to think it ungentlemanly to wash their damn hands before and after surgery! We put radium on shit because it glowed, without adequately studying why until women's jaws were deteriorating in their faces. We put asbestos on shit to prevent fires, but oopsie poopsie, better not breathe any in! And man, those knocking engines just need a little heavy metals to settle down. Whoops, IQ just noticeably dropped? Oh well. History shows us that humankind, even when assembled and "organized" is always a day late and a dollar short to averting disaster. Nothing ever happens of import until something unavoidable and existentially threatening happens. That's when, magically, we'll be "friends" and "allies" and talk about "camaraderie". As soon as disaster is averted, they go back to being assholes to each other, just like during COVID-19. What, pray tell, do you think humankind was able to do about evil in the past 5 years?