4 ms·

Counterpoint to fears of losing the drudgery we're entitled to: once the value of labor has evaporated, and we still have the masses controlling the ballot box,

Counterpoint to fears of losing the drudgery we're entitled to: once the value of labor has evaporated, and we still have the masses controlling the ballot box, we may finally achieve Fully Automated Luxury Communism[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fully_Automated_Luxury_Communism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fully_Automated_Luxury_Communi...

sunday_serif 3y ago
We have already introduced so many automations into our lives in the past century. People from 100 years ago would assume that, with the tools we have today, we already would have reached “fully automated luxury communism”. But instead, we fall short of that utopia. The growth in consumption seems to always ever so slightly outpace innovation. A result of this relationship between consumption and innovation seems to be that there is always some drudgery for humans right beyond the edge of what we can automate. The drudgery serves to eek just a bit more out of the system in order to match the demands of consumption. Tomorrows drudgery will not look like todays, but it will remain drudgery all the same.
- shanusmagnus 3y ago
  I think there's a lot of truth to this. I also suspect that, if you translated the median person from the US to the alternate-reality world of FALC they might look around in wonder; while the people native to the FALC reality would be as disaffected as many are today.
failuser 3y ago
For how long? The authoritarians have deeper pockets than ever and democrats (lower case d) are struggling.
jampekka 3y ago
And we have the, mostly commercial, propaganda machine controlling the masses. And regardless, if the masses would try to use the ballot box to make moves to something like FALC, it would be taken away, by force if necessary. This has been seen countless times. Looking at how wealth, capital and power are concentrating, we are well on our way to some sort of new feudal system.
- myth_drannon 3y ago
  How do we know we are not in feudal system right now? Propaganda machine is telling us we are in a democracy, but all I see is oligarchy controlling the system.
  - nemo44x 3y ago
    It’s called the iron law of oligarchy.[1] All democratic organizations decay into oligarchies - a minority group of elites that are in control. So the question becomes who gets to join that elite and how do people get cycled out of it. When there isn’t a sufficient cycling (people who shouldn’t be a part any longer remain - nepotism etc; people that don’t deserve to be a part are invited - diversity for diversities sake, etc) people then it becomes rotten. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy
    - shanusmagnus 3y ago
      I'd never heard of this, and it's already proved a fascinating rabbit hole. Thanks!
      - nemo44x 3y ago
        It’s worth looking into Vilfredo Pareto and Gaetano Mosca, both from the Italian school of elitism. The overruling theme being a well connected, organized minority will always rule over a disorganized and disinterested majority. Machiavelli too had many interesting ideas, in particular how the elite moved through the various forms of government. A monarch decays into a despot and is eventually overtaken by an aristocracy of nobles which decays into democracy over a few generations which has a very short life and takes on the darker side of “rule by few” as an oligarchy. Eventually they become so decadent that a populist government (rule by many, the darker side of democracy) overtakes them and soon after a new prince, or monarch “of the people” is born and the cycle continues possibly over many hundreds of years. Looking at America I think we are in the oligarchical phase and pushing hard towards a populist whom will reform the government dramatically.
tap-snap-or-nap 3y ago
"Masses controlling the ballot box" is far more complicated than most people understand.
- chromoblob 3y ago
  Please elaborate.

sunday_serif 3y ago

We have already introduced so many automations into our lives in the past century. People from 100 years ago would assume that, with the tools we have today, we already would have reached “fully automated luxury communism”. But instead, we fall short of that utopia. The growth in consumption seems to always ever so slightly outpace innovation. A result of this relationship between consumption and innovation seems to be that there is always some drudgery for humans right beyond the edge of what we can automate. The drudgery serves to eek just a bit more out of the system in order to match the demands of consumption. Tomorrows drudgery will not look like todays, but it will remain drudgery all the same.

shanusmagnus 3y ago
I think there's a lot of truth to this. I also suspect that, if you translated the median person from the US to the alternate-reality world of FALC they might look around in wonder; while the people native to the FALC reality would be as disaffected as many are today.

failuser 3y ago

For how long? The authoritarians have deeper pockets than ever and democrats (lower case d) are struggling.

jampekka 3y ago

And we have the, mostly commercial, propaganda machine controlling the masses. And regardless, if the masses would try to use the ballot box to make moves to something like FALC, it would be taken away, by force if necessary. This has been seen countless times. Looking at how wealth, capital and power are concentrating, we are well on our way to some sort of new feudal system.

myth_drannon 3y ago
How do we know we are not in feudal system right now? Propaganda machine is telling us we are in a democracy, but all I see is oligarchy controlling the system.
- nemo44x 3y ago
  It’s called the iron law of oligarchy.[1] All democratic organizations decay into oligarchies - a minority group of elites that are in control. So the question becomes who gets to join that elite and how do people get cycled out of it. When there isn’t a sufficient cycling (people who shouldn’t be a part any longer remain - nepotism etc; people that don’t deserve to be a part are invited - diversity for diversities sake, etc) people then it becomes rotten. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy
  - shanusmagnus 3y ago
    I'd never heard of this, and it's already proved a fascinating rabbit hole. Thanks!
    - nemo44x 3y ago
      It’s worth looking into Vilfredo Pareto and Gaetano Mosca, both from the Italian school of elitism. The overruling theme being a well connected, organized minority will always rule over a disorganized and disinterested majority. Machiavelli too had many interesting ideas, in particular how the elite moved through the various forms of government. A monarch decays into a despot and is eventually overtaken by an aristocracy of nobles which decays into democracy over a few generations which has a very short life and takes on the darker side of “rule by few” as an oligarchy. Eventually they become so decadent that a populist government (rule by many, the darker side of democracy) overtakes them and soon after a new prince, or monarch “of the people” is born and the cycle continues possibly over many hundreds of years. Looking at America I think we are in the oligarchical phase and pushing hard towards a populist whom will reform the government dramatically.

tap-snap-or-nap 3y ago

"Masses controlling the ballot box" is far more complicated than most people understand.

chromoblob 3y ago
Please elaborate.